Anyone else disappointed with the Stormcloak questline?

[Lachdonin]

It's nowhere near that simple though. Even if we leave out the metaphysics, the worlds internal history and the Themla-esque notions of violence and love, the Roman-Celt comparison breaks down on any degree of investigation.

 

First, the timeline. Vercingotorix's revolt took place after years of Roman rule, not Centuries. Similar periods of rulership over the Gallia Narbonensis region resulted in the Gaul's adopting an almost exclusively roman culture, one which has persevered straight through to the modern day. You can't draw the parallel between the Empire and Stormcloaks without accounting for time and the cultural similarities which were held between Cyrodiil and Skyrim even before the founding of the Septim Empire.

 

Second, the Vercingetorix revolt did not have a precedence for the 'bigger threat' we see in Skyrim. Nothing remotely like the Aldmeri dominion was threatening Rome. The closest thing to any kind of major threat was some turmoil over the death Pulcher, which was more a degree of political uncertainty than any form of military threat.

 

Third, the basic justification for the conflicts are different. Julius was expanding Roman territory through the conquest of Gaul tribes, Tullius is holding onto territory against a religious revolt. If anything, the early Christian uprisings throughout the Empire have more in common with the situation in Skyrim than the Vercingetorix revolt.

 

Fourth, traditional conduct. Applying judgement against Caesar for his imprisonment and execution of Vercingetorix is ethnocentric in the extreme. You have the clashing of two cultural groups, with different customs, both of which end up acting in accordance with those customs. The fact that they are largely contrary to eachother is irrelevant. In Skyrim, however, you have two cultures which have been largely homogenized through centuries of cooperation and cultural drift, whereas one suddenly decides to revive older, largely extinct traditions, and even flaunts those when it suits them. The revolt in Gaul was based on independence and cultural autonomy, Skyrim is about one man's bid for power.

 

There is a parallel in Skyrim to the Vercingetorix rebellion, though. Like Ulfric, Vercingetorix never managed to unite all the tribes of Gaul. Many supported the Romans, just like half the Holds support the Empire.

 

Anyway, the point is, there is no single period in history that Skyrim's political state is based on. It draws in elements of dozens of different conflicts, then bathes them in a healthy dose of metaphysical significance. Trying to tie it into a single conflict is doomed to failure, and results in missing out on the nuances of the situation.

[fifteenspades]

Lach can i hire you as my personal history buff/ TES Lore buff? =p

[fraquar]

Any Empire worth calling itself an Empire will not willingly allow the enemy into their own territory to interrogate, torture, mutilate and kill it's own civilians. They are an Empire in name only, because they have basically sold it's member nations down the proverbial river.

[Kraeten]

Any Empire worth calling itself an Empire will not willingly allow the enemy into their own territory to interrogate, torture, mutilate and kill it's own civilians. They are an Empire in name only, because they have basically sold it's member nations down the proverbial river.

 

You make it sound as if the Empire hasn't already LITERALLY sold its member nations down the river. I doubt the Redguards were pleased when the Imps handed over Hammerfell land, before eventually washing their hands of the province altogether and so leaving the Redguards to fight the Aldmeri Dominion on their own.

[Conatus]

I just finished the Stormcloak questline today. I could never bring myself to do it because I always felt bad at Whiterun when forcing Balgruff to submit and Vignar walks in there, so I always reloaded an earlier save. I thought I needed to see what the ending was though so I finally finished it. It gave me the distinct impression that the Stormcloaks were closer to the bad guys than the Imperials (something I had always suspected).

 

A). We all have to admit Ulfic's intentions are less than honorable. The last conversation between he and Galmar really gave that away. He just wanted to be king.

 

The dossier on Ulfic taken from the Aldemeri embassey makes it clear that Ulfic's working with the Aldermeri.

[LobselVith66]

 

I just finished the Stormcloak questline today. I could never bring myself to do it because I always felt bad at Whiterun when forcing Balgruff to submit and Vignar walks in there, so I always reloaded an earlier save. I thought I needed to see what the ending was though so I finally finished it. It gave me the distinct impression that the Stormcloaks were closer to the bad guys than the Imperials (something I had always suspected).

A). We all have to admit Ulfic's intentions are less than honorable. The last conversation between he and Galmar really gave that away. He just wanted to be king.

The dossier on Ulfic taken from the Aldemeri embassey makes it clear that Ulfic's working with the Aldermeri.

 

Ulfric wants to be High King, while the Empire wants to rule over Skyrim. I'm not seeing how Ulfric is somehow malevolent for wanting to be High King, especially when he wants to restore Skyrim and take the fight to the Thalmor. I don't see how the Empire is benevolent for wanting the same thing as Ulfric: control over the throne of High King.

 

Also, the dossier makes it clear Ulfric isn't working for the Thalmor, and they don't want the Stormcloaks to win the civil war. His hatred for Elewen, the woman who tortured him, is evident enough.

[fifteenspades]

It doesn't matter if he doesn't know he's working for the Thalmor, He was and always will be just a puppet king. He does not want to "restore" skyrim, all Ulfric wants is to take revenge on the Thalmor.

[chicky540]

well, my opinion about ulfric and the stormcloaks... killem all! HAIL TO THE EMPIRE!!

[LobselVith66]

It doesn't matter if he doesn't know he's working for the Thalmor, He was and always will be just a puppet king. He does not want to "restore" skyrim, all Ulfric wants is to take revenge on the Thalmor.

Considering that an independent Skyrim is an outcome the Thalmor don't want, I don't see how he's a puppet. The Empire capitulated to the Thalmor and have given them reign throughout the Empire; Ulfric opposes them. I'm not seeing how Ulfric is the puppet here.

[fifteenspades]

Because the thalmor could care less about skyrim and its w/e. They want the Civil War to continue for as long as possible so it continues to distract the empire, Ulfric wants to rule over skyrim and fight the thalmor, except by trying to defy the empire he is doing EXACTLY what the Thalmor want him too. If you would just READ BACK a few pages you would not have these questions ~.~