Having the Falmer be Blind is Just Stupid

[ziitch]

Just a reminder, Beethoven was deaf, yet he's considered one of the greatest composers of all time. Loss of senses considered "critical" for a skill doesn't mean you can find a way around them. Take the "blind monk" trope, for instance - even TES has somewhat of its own version with the Ancestor Moth. Edited September 19, 2012 by ziitch

[David Brasher]

I am not impressed by the "blind monk" trope. That is as bad as blind Falmer. In real life, I am no great brawler, but put me into a cage in front of an audience with any blind person in the world, and I will most likely win the cage match.

 

Beethoven was awesome. He was a great composer before he went deaf, and after he went deaf, he was able to continue to compose great works. He never would have been able to learn about music and become a great composer if he had not had his hearing during the first part of his career.

[Lachdonin]

I have read a fair amount of unmitigated BS and some absolutely asinine drivel but this is magnificent in its absolute denial of fact and unsubstantiated blather bordering on the delusional.

 

Obviously, the capabilities of the Falmer within the game to use bows and arrows with a comparative degree of accuracy and finesse and of being quite capable in locating and identifying enemies from a distance is just a meaningless aberration and thus cannot be accepted as evidence the Falmer have some ability to see because the game play mechanics are not representative of the world.

 

Really?

 

Then please explain exactly how the blind Falmer are capable of the feats seen in the game using substantiated fact and science from the real world and not some garbage about magicka or some fantasy statement like "it is a rather simple thing to evolve to navigate complext environments without sight."

 

I think I may be waiting a long, long time for that explanation.

 

I, and others, have pointed out SEVERAL times at this point the fact that sound waves can be used to create not only an accurate map of ones surroundings, but a highly detailed one. Bats, for instance, can preform arial acrobatics which would put any stunt pilot to shame, navigating only by sound. The Falmer using bows and being able to locate targets does not, in any way, indicate they can see. It simply means that they have a means of navigation. Given their environment, and the expressly stated design intent of the Falmer, it's infinately more likely that they opperate on sound rather than sight. A rather showy (though in this case it may be more appropriate) example of sonic mapping is in the rather terrible Daredevil movie.

 

Second, bringing in other examples of lore-gameplay dissconect, even if they don't expressly deal with blind Falmer, is not a sign that Sajuukkhar is is ignoring the discussion at hand. He is giving examples of how one cannot take the content of the game at face value, because it has been proven to sacrifice things. Your inability to understand any of this, however, makes me wonder if the Falmer are not the only blind ones.

[thompsonar]

 

A rather showy (though in this case it may be more appropriate) example of sonic mapping is in the rather terrible Daredevil movie.

 

 

You know I was thinking about that movie when I read this thread the other day but didn't want to mention it as I was embarrassed to admit I'd seen it. But it is a great example, even though it's a terrible movie.

 

I have no problem whatsoever believing that the Falmer are blind and still use bows and navigate through the tunnels they usually live in. With so many things wrong (mechanics wise) with the game it's strange to pick out one thing and decide that because they look like they're looking around, it must mean that the Falmer can see since they behave like every other enemy in the game. Obviously Beth didn't want to code in different movement that would make the Falmer act a little more blind.

[Tidus44]

I have read a fair amount of unmitigated BS and some absolutely asinine drivel but this is magnificent in its absolute denial of fact and unsubstantiated blather bordering on the delusional.

 

Obviously, the capabilities of the Falmer within the game to use bows and arrows with a comparative degree of accuracy and finesse and of being quite capable in locating and identifying enemies from a distance is just a meaningless aberration and thus cannot be accepted as evidence the Falmer have some ability to see because the game play mechanics are not representative of the world.

 

Really?

 

Then please explain exactly how the blind Falmer are capable of the feats seen in the game using substantiated fact and science from the real world and not some garbage about magicka or some fantasy statement like "it is a rather simple thing to evolve to navigate complext environments without sight."

 

I think I may be waiting a long, long time for that explanation.

 

I, and others, have pointed out SEVERAL times at this point the fact that sound waves can be used to create not only an accurate map of ones surroundings, but a highly detailed one. Bats, for instance, can preform arial acrobatics which would put any stunt pilot to shame, navigating only by sound. The Falmer using bows and being able to locate targets does not, in any way, indicate they can see. It simply means that they have a means of navigation. Given their environment, and the expressly stated design intent of the Falmer, it's infinately more likely that they opperate on sound rather than sight. A rather showy (though in this case it may be more appropriate) example of sonic mapping is in the rather terrible Daredevil movie.

 

Second, bringing in other examples of lore-gameplay dissconect, even if they don't expressly deal with blind Falmer, is not a sign that Sajuukkhar is is ignoring the discussion at hand. He is giving examples of how one cannot take the content of the game at face value, because it has been proven to sacrifice things. Your inability to understand any of this, however, makes me wonder if the Falmer are not the only blind ones.

 

 

Since I do prefer intelligent discussion with people who are at the very least honest, I'll be ignoring you as well as you seem to suffer from the same opportunistic troll syndrome. Have a nice day.

[TheVampireDante]

that because they look like they're looking around, it must mean that the Falmer can see since they behave like every other enemy in the game.

 

The "looking around" could part of the way their sense works, perhaps it's better focused in front of them, so they turn their heads to better "view" it when they pick up something of interest.

 

--------------------------

 

Tidus44 - if you wish to remain in the discussion - I would drop the attitude. It's not warranted and very disrespectful.

 

Same goes for anyone else, keep it civil please.

[Georgiegril]

In a world where one can shoot fire, frost or lightning from their hands from nothing, raise the dead to fight and steal a soul to enchant some object; is it inherently unbelievable that the Falmer may have developed some magical or other ability that allows them to see?

Touche' :happy:

 

Although when the falmer are dropping me with a 1-hit arrow, I do remind them that they can't actually be doing that.;)

[Lachdonin]

 

Since I do prefer intelligent discussion with people who are at the very least honest, I'll be ignoring you as well as you seem to suffer from the same opportunistic troll syndrome. Have a nice day.

 

Intelegent discussion requires 2 people with some intelegent points. There may be a reason why you're having trouble finding it, and i am afraid it's not us.

 

Your premise that the Falmer can see is based on 2 points.

A; they activly look for you, going so far as to scan the area with their heads and to 'look' right at you.

B; They can use bows

 

We have shown, first, that there is a dissconnect between gameplay and lore, so you can't take their search patterns, in game, at face value.

 

We have also shown that sight (as in visual) is not in the least required for either activities.

 

But, if you want something with some more intelegence (despite the fact whats already been said seems to go right over your head). The searching patterns of the Falmer, assuming they opperate on some varriation of echolocation, makes perfect sense. Why? The angle of the ears (which roughly aproximates our own) ensure that optimal hearing us uni-directional. In order to create accurate sonic maps, the Falmer must be facing in the direction of the sound source, otherwise it becomes distorted. This is because the cone of the ear, which is deisnged to capture sound and focus it into the ear drum, actually absorbs and warps sound waves when not in the proper facing. Thus, by 'looking' at you, the Falmer is actually focusing on the source of the sound (be it the thwang of a bow string, your footsteps or what have you).

[FennecFyre]

My theory is that in response to the poisonous mushrooms they were fed, the Falmer adapted a sort of "heat vision". Komodo dragons have a third eye of sorts on theor forehead that really only lets them sense light, but if the Falmer had the same thing, just possibly more evolved and designed to sense heat, it may explain why they can shoot with such accuracy. The skin over what was once their eyes looks different from the rest of their face.

 

Combine heat vision with acute hearing and smell, and I'd say they could get around pretty well.

[Lachdonin]

My theory is that in response to the poisonous mushrooms they were fed, the Falmer adapted a sort of "heat vision". Komodo dragons have a third eye of sorts on theor forehead that really only lets them sense light, but if the Falmer had the same thing, just possibly more evolved and designed to sense heat, it may explain why they can shoot with such accuracy. The skin over what was once their eyes looks different from the rest of their face.

 

Combine heat vision with acute hearing and smell, and I'd say they could get around pretty well.

 

So something like the Drow? The only problem with that is there would be absolutely no hiding from them, which we are indeed supposed to be able to do. All the steam in the Dwemer ruins, which they are so fond of, would cause all kinds of issues as well.