Aree Orcs a type of elf?

[IsharaMeradin]

Of course, I'm someone who questioned a 'half-elf' mod, since Breton are half-elf ; ) ((and I think they're my favourite race))

Breton's are half elf? How do you get that? They are the shortest race, have no similar features to elves at all.

 

I tried a breton once. I couldn't handle it. too short. I had to keep moving the mouse up to click on the shop keepers and not accidentally steal something. And by default my cross hair would point to the crotch of any NPC that I spoke with. THAT is not where my character should be looking -.-

[StormKat33]

Actually they are Elves in the Elder Scrolls lore. They are a warrior barbarian tribe of Elves.

 

Here is the link to their racial profile. Orc Profile and History

 

When you get to the website scroll down until you see the description for their "Personality."

 

There it will tell you more about them.

[raymondNZdnd]

Of course, I'm someone who questioned a 'half-elf' mod, since Breton are half-elf ; ) ((and I think they're my favourite race))

Breton's are half elf? How do you get that? They are the shortest race, have no similar features to elves at all.

 

Taking a leaf from StormKat33: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Breton

 

Bretons are the human descendants who hail from the province of High Rock. According to the Third Pocket Guide to the Empire, they have descended from the people of Nede and Aldmer. The Aldmer thought of making a superior race with their own "Elder", or "Superior", blood, by mating with other races. The Bretons are sometimes called "Manmeri" because of this.

[Dianadoesitbest]

No they were elves, but they are not anymore. Most of people of Tamriel don't consider them elves. If you really want to get nerdy realize that Tolkien is usually the base for most fantasy. Orcs in that lore, just like ES, were once elves. But clearly they are not considered that way anymore. An Orc is an elf just as much as a demon can be considered an Angel. They are fallen. In fact Orcs are pretty much an allegory for Angels and demons.

 

 

Speaking of Orcs, Doesn't Skyrim Border Orsinium? I would really like to see an ORC oriented DLC. Or a return to the destroyed Morrowind.

[IsharaMeradin]

yeah I saw that after reading the other link.... still they don't fit the image of a half-elf. Their race may be descended from a mix of elves & human. But a true half-elf has one parent as an elf and the other parent a human. In that sense the Bretons as individuals are not half-elf.

 

Which I think is why TES doesn't have a half-elf option as a playable character. All their playable characters fit into a specific race that is active in the game. Trying to do a true half-elf race would be more trouble than it is worth especially since it requires mixed families and the current lore is that the elves don't like anyone that isn't an elf, thus they wouldn't have mixed families.

 

Games like the Baldur's Gate & Icewind Dale series can get away with half-elfs cause the game is about the character and doesn't emphasize race as heavily as TES does

[SFBryan18]

Technically you are wrong IsharaMeradin... If an entire race is half one thing and half another, then they stay half and half until one of their halves breeds the other half out. Your logic suggests that over time, one side of the Breton genes were lost, but you fail to explain how. Just because they don't have pointy ears, doesn't mean a group of Nords came into High Rock and bread the elf out of them.

 

A half breed doesn't require two pure bread parents... It can also be two half bread parents. Do the math...

 

Parent 1: 1/2 elf, 1/2 human

Parent 2: 1/2 elf, 1/2 human

Child: (1/2elf + 1/2elf) + (1/2human + 1/2human) = 1 elf and 1 human divide by 2 parents to make one child who is 1/2 elf and 1/2 human.

 

I don't know if the Breton is half elf, but if they were, your logic to suggest that one side would simply disappear is wrong.

[raymondNZdnd]

No they were elves, but they are not anymore. Most of people of Tamriel don't consider them elves. If you really want to get nerdy realize that Tolkien is usually the base for most fantasy. Orcs in that lore, just like ES, were once elves. But clearly they are not considered that way anymore. An Orc is an elf just as much as a demon can be considered an Angel. They are fallen. In fact Orcs are pretty much an allegory for Angels and demons.

 

An interesting/good argument -- and in reality I don't think there's a definitive answer unless Bethesda writes one.

 

Elf guide (from a dummy):

Altmer: sophisticated true elves

Bosmer: country cousins

Dunmer: cursed cousins (.. allowed in the family, looked on with sympathy)

Osimer: really cursed cousins (.. are they still elves? not allowed in the house)

Dwemer: dead cousins (.. as far as we know)

Falmer: extremely cursed cousins (.. are they still elves? do they have souls? (ordinary soul gems work on them, c.f. black soul gem))

 

Menmeri: distant half cousins that have barely any magic traits left. (.. best forgotten - treat them as men, and let the men pick on them too).

[Deleted3507349User]

On a personal note, Bretons make for powerhouse magic users without the weaknesses to magic that the kinfe-ears have.

 

(yeah, deliberately racist just for the sheer persnicketyness of it).

 

On a way-off-to-the-side-note, why reference Tolkien? This is TES, not Middle Earth or some such. Just because some racial names are used in common doesn't mean there are any similarities. Besides, the term 'orc' in TES lore is a nickname or common name of sorts.

 

raymond_dnd's take on them seems to be the best I've read on this topic yet. Altmer have more in common with the elves of Discworld lore than Tolkien.

[Dianadoesitbest]

On a personal note, Bretons make for powerhouse magic users without the weaknesses to magic that the kinfe-ears have.

 

(yeah, deliberately racist just for the sheer persnicketyness of it).

 

On a way-off-to-the-side-note, why reference Tolkien? This is TES, not Middle Earth or some such. Just because some racial names are used in common doesn't mean there are any similarities. Besides, the term 'orc' in TES lore is a nickname or common name of sorts.

 

raymond_dnd's take on them seems to be the best I've read on this topic yet. Altmer have more in common with the elves of Discworld lore than Tolkien.

 

Just pointing out that both Orc races were once Elves. Orsimer Were once elves but corrupted by Malakath, its pretty much ripped from Tolkien. Seeing as how most of the Lore in Elder Scrolls, at least race wise, are based in norse mythology like like Tolkien did.

[IsharaMeradin]

lets follow your logic for a moment

 

.......1/2 H  | 1/2 E
......._______________
1/2 H | 1 H   | 1 H-E |
......|_______|_______|
1/2 E | 1 H-E | 1 E   |
......|_______|_______|

I see

25% chance having a pure elf

25% chance having a pure human

50% chance having a pure half-elf

 

But given that there are 26 chromosomes per human, 13 of which come from each parent. Add in all the numerous possibilities of dominant/dormant features. The likelihood of getting two half-elves to always give birth to anything so simple as the chart above is to put it bluntly highly unlikely.

 

No. what happened is clearly explained in the lore. The Aldemeri attempted to breed the Nede out. Instead they left behind a group of individuals that were neither Aldemeri or Nede. But can they be claimed to be half of either one. No. Genetics rarely will allow for anything to be purely half except when the parents are purely whole of two different species.

 

Its still my contention that the race may be considered 'half' due to its ancestry but not any one individual of that race as it stands in today's lore. Therefore, to play a true half-elf you must rely upon mods.

 

What some people forget is that the idea of half-elf is not the idea of a specific race but the idea of a specific character. This is why I mentioned Baldur's Gate & Icewind Dale where half-elf is a viable character to play. There half-elves are described as having a parent of each human & elf. It's not described as a group of individuals with common ancestry. A half-elf can identify and live with humans and in the 'big picture' would be called human because of their societal relations. That is the only reason that Bretons could be considered 'half' because instead of associating with either elf or human they created their own society but that was back in the First Era, by the Fourth Era they can no longer be called half, but rather descended from and that is exactly what the lore says. No where in the lore does it call Bretons HALF of anything.

 

EDIT... several replies since I started typing... this is in reply to SFBryan18's post

Edited September 28, 2012 by IsharaMeradin