Ok, I tried it.

[HadToRegister]

 

 

As a programmer, I am quite familiar with the " all program deficiencies are really user errors" theory and with the resultant consequences of that theory. Such as vanishing support forums, or providing a place where ignorant users can help each other.

 

 

 

 

I've heard this same exact thing before in these forums, from a different user account, a few months ago.

 

[Guest deleted34304850]

 

As a programmer, I am quite familiar with the " all program deficiencies are really user errors" theory and with the resultant consequences of that theory. Such as vanishing support forums, or providing a place where ignorant users can help each other.

no way on earth you are a programmer. no way.

[HadToRegister]

Here's an example of your brief and vague comments, that are at the most inflammatory, and leave out any detail whatsoever, and instead, just show a lack of understanding about the different features of Vortex, and instead, are just "Complaints for the sake of complaining"

Because if you truly wanted to help Vortex become something better, you'd be detailed about your comments, rather than vague as possible.

Leaving one line comments without any explanation only makes it look like you're trying to 'stir the pot'

From the ARE YOU SURE confirmation for Purge thread...

 

My experience, the answer to the purge question must always be no. Better would be for it to be removed from Vortex.

As I responded to you in that thread.
Requesting the Purge function be completely from Vortex shows how little you know about how Vortex works, and/or was just meant to 'stir things up', as you don't explain WHY you think it should be removed, instead, just like with other threads where people complain about Vortex, a user will randomly come along, and necro a thread and say "Vortex destroyed all my mod installs" and offer NOTHING more, then they disappear.
That, is what you keep doing. ()Except for the disappearing part)

[soaringcow]

>This topic has reached the end of its usefulness? Perhaps, but we can hope otherwise.

 

I was wrong, I see. There is no hope.

[HadToRegister]

>This topic has reached the end of its usefulness? Perhaps, but we can hope otherwise.

 

I was wrong, I see. There is no hope.

 

 

He suggested this thread has reached the end of it's usefulness due to the OP (you) refusing to provide any thing helpful or useful.

You make a complaint, and what little detail you provide (if at all), shows that your problem is caused by you not knowing what you're doing

When asked for more detail, you completely ignore everybody and continue complaining instead.

Every complaint you've lodged so far has had nothing to do with Vortex, and everything with your inability to understand the environment you're working with.

 

I have suggested to you on numerous occasions to read the knowledge base, you haven't done so, and it's pretty clear, that you have no plan of doing so, and instead want to continue to complain about your user-error caused problems while being as evasive and cryptic as possible.

 

At this point I don't believe you're even serious about anything regarding Vortex and are here 'just for fun'

 

I'll let you shout in a vacuum now, because I will not continue to feed you.

 

[Tannin42]

The answers that I have received from others suggests that, for many fo4 installations, the problem won't be repeatable.

Let me get this straight.

You were told

by someone trying to help you

that they recognize the problem and it won't be repeatable?

 

That's absurd. Like - "the dog ate my homework" absurd.

If there is a systematic error in Vortex how could it not be repeatable? And how do these mysterious "others" know so much about this problem?

 

I did suggest that Vortex check to see that the file it attempted to place was in fact placed and give a notice if not.

 

What the ...?

Copying files isn't a fire-and-forget operation, I know whether it was successful or not after doing it. The only way I could copy a file, ask the os if it's there and

the reply is "no" is

a) the file got deleted by you, the user, in which case I have to react to a file deletion not undo it

b) windows has an enormous bug in which case - ummm - run for the next bomb shelter?

 

In my original post I did mention a specific situation where a file was not placed. Crafting Highlight Fix did not place the needed dll in the f4se\plugins directory.

That mod installs perfectly fine and there is no reason it wouldn't because it has no installer script. All Vortex does with that mod is call 7z to extract it like it

does for ~90% of all mods.

Considering we have hundreds of thousands of users installing millions of mods, if this problem was common we would we swamped with reports.

If it was random, how come it affects you repeatedly and practically no one else (except for "the others")?

 

You see where I'm getting at? For this mod install to not install correctly for you while it installs fine for just about everyone else there has to be something unusual

you do that others don't or something unusual with your system that others haven't.

Might still be a bug but without you providing the info of what makes your system and your way of installing the mod different from between 99% and 100% of all the other

cases there is no way we're going to know.

 

The solution I found in the HUDF forum was to manually reinstall all mods that depend on HUDF.

Except that was not the solution that was suggested. I've just gone through the trouble of looking through that thread and

a) the post you replied to was not regarding Crafting Highlight Fix or any other dll but about a swf file that gets created by an external application and for some reason

people expect Vortex to magically know about new files and where they belong to. Sorry, I'm fresh out of fairy dust and my unicorn is in the shop. This isn't how it works.

b) The suggested solution was to reimport the swf into the staging folder, not to manually reinstall. Manually reinstalling was someones way to sidestep the issue, not a

fix, much less the only or best one.

c) No one afaict said that the problem wouldn't be repeatable.

 

So I am not the only one that has seen this problem. But I understand that it will be difficult to actually fix it.

Difficult in the same sense as splitting an atom with tweezers...

The post was about a swf file that gets manually patched, manually renamed, by an autopatcher manually run outside vortex and then placed back in the game directory and

then somehow Vortex is expected to automatically put it into a staging folder that is _not_ the one from which the swf file originated and automatically change the install

order?

I'm a programmer, not Harry Potter!

Like, seriously, there is a difference between a bug and failing to do the impossible. Unless I'm misinterpreting what was suggested in that forum, what they

say Vortex should have done automatically is plain and simply impossible

Unless you write a bunch of code specifically to support this specific mod. Which won't

happen, especially when no one from the group of people who know about the problem informs anyone from the group of people who could solve it.

 

There is a history of your products not installing mods right. That should tell you something.

Mostly we have a history of having extremely many users of which some will sometimes do something wrong and some of those will blame us for their mistakes.

 

NMM was forked from FOMM which was created outside our company and went through several developers to become the application you know, I am none of them.

I created MO, MO2 and now Vortex.

 

So either you're suggesting that somehow working in this company or working on projects that will eventually be picked up by this company somehow leads to a brain disease

that makes you do a very specific kind of mistake

or you're suggesting that the NMM developers and myself make the same kind of mistakes independently.

But that would mean that MO probably has it too and when the mod managers used by around 98% out of everyone who uses a mod manager have the same issue maybe there is a

reason for it being the way it is?

 

Or maybe all your theories are a bit weird?

[soaringcow]

Wow.

 

 

The answers that I have received from others suggests that, for many fo4 installations, the problem won't be repeatable.

Let me get this straight.
You were told
by someone trying to help you
that they recognize the problem and it won't be repeatable?

 

 

Not what I said. I said that the answers I received here (it works for me they say) suggest that what I see will likely be hard to duplicate.

 

I did suggest that Vortex check to see that the file it attempted to place was in fact placed and give a notice if not.

What the ...?
Copying files isn't a fire-and-forget operation, I know whether it was successful or not after doing it. The only way I could copy a file, ask the os if it's there and
the reply is "no" is
a) the file got deleted by you, the user, in which case I have to react to a file deletion not undo it
b) windows has an enormous bug in which case - ummm - run for the next bomb shelter?

 

b) Windows can prevent a file being placed on the hard drive. You must know that. It would not necessarily be a bug in Windows.

 

 

In my original post I did mention a specific situation where a file was not placed. Crafting Highlight Fix did not place the needed dll in the f4se\plugins directory.

That mod installs perfectly fine and there is no reason it wouldn't because it has no installer script. All Vortex does with that mod is call 7z to extract it like it
does for ~90% of all mods.
Considering we have hundreds of thousands of users installing millions of mods, if this problem was common we would we swamped with reports.
If it was random, how come it affects you repeatedly and practically no one else (except for "the others")?

 

I did say it would be hard to duplicate. I also said that the cure that I found for the HUDFramework problem means that other people do often get bad or partial instalations.

 

The solution I found in the HUDF forum was to manually reinstall all mods that depend on HUDF.

Except that was not the solution that was suggested. I've just gone through the trouble of looking through that thread and
a) the post you replied to was not regarding Crafting Highlight Fix

 

True, I posted in the HUDF forum concerning the "HUD Framework not ready" message. I did not post anywhere about the CHF problem.

 

or any other dll but about a swf file that gets created by an external application and for some reason
people expect Vortex to magically know about new files and where they belong to. Sorry, I'm fresh out of fairy dust and my unicorn is in the shop. This isn't how it works.

 

Yes, the problem was not with HUDF installation. It was with one of the mods that depend on it which were also installed by Vortex. I don't know which mod didn't get done right, but one of them didn't.

 

b) The suggested solution was to reimport the swf into the staging folder, not to manually reinstall. Manually reinstalling was someones way to sidestep the issue, not a
fix, much less the only or best one.

 

Except that that manual reinstall suggestion was the one that worked, sidestep or not.

c) No one afaict said that the problem wouldn't be repeatable.

 

Right, that was my assessment of the situation.

So I am not the only one that has seen this problem. But I understand that it will be difficult to actually fix it.

Difficult in the same sense as splitting an atom with tweezers...
The post was about a swf file that gets manually patched, manually renamed, by an autopatcher manually run outside vortex and then placed back in the game directory and
then somehow Vortex is expected to automatically put it into a staging folder that is _not_ the one from which the swf file originated and automatically change the install
order?
I'm a programmer, not Harry Potter!

 

Hmm, that's interesting. This is not the suggested solution or situation I was referirng to.

 

There is a history of your products not installing mods right. That should tell you something.

Mostly we have a history of having extremely many users of which some will sometimes do something wrong and some of those will blame us for their mistakes.

 

Yes, that is the programmer's explanation since forever. Since I started out as a Assembly Language programmer, I have been hearing it for a long time. But I suspect other things are possible these days.

NMM was forked from FOMM which was created outside our company and went through several developers to become the application you know, I am none of them.
I created MO, MO2 and now Vortex.

 

I'm impressed.

So either you're suggesting that somehow working in this company or working on projects that will eventually be picked up by this company somehow leads to a brain disease
that makes you do a very specific kind of mistake
or you're suggesting that the NMM developers and myself make the same kind of mistakes independently.
But that would mean that MO probably has it too and when the mod managers used by around 98% out of everyone who uses a mod manager have the same issue maybe there is a
reason for it being the way it is?

 

It is true. I have so far found no mod managers that reliably install mods. That is why I do it myself, including fomods.

Or maybe all your theories are a bit weird?

 

Wierdness is for the young. I'm too old for that now.

 

 

You are obviously a smart guy, and I thank you for taking the time to give me this lengthy response.

 

I think there probably is a way you could check whether a file placement actually happened, though.

[Tannin42]

b) Windows can prevent a file being placed on the hard drive. You must know that. It would not necessarily be a bug in Windows.

The keyword there was "successful". If windows prevents a file being placed for permission reasons or something it's giving out an error message. Windows doesn't go

"yeah, ok, file copied" when it has prevented that copy.

I've been developing windows software for ~18 years (linux before that) and I don't think I've ever encountered or even heard of windows lying about the success

of file operations. Again, it would be extremely bad if it did.

 

 

I did say it would be hard to duplicate.

But it isn't! If you are talking about the same problem discussed in the HUDF forum it wouldn't be hard to duplicate if you would just write down step-by-step what you

did and then we could decide whether you did something wrong or if Vortex should have done the right thing. But right now all I know - actually I still can only assume -

you ran the autopatcher outside Vortex which involves copying files around and you expect me to just trust that you did everything right and Vortex did a mystery bug

and then a file was missing which you claim is a dll that wasn't touched in the process.

It doesn't work like that, I can't fix a problem on this basis When I know (for sure) neither what the user did or what the effect of the presumed bug was.

 

Yes, the problem was not with HUDF installation. It was with one of the mods that depend on it which were also installed by Vortex.

Sooo, you have a problem. Then you apply a not-a-solution that was posted in an unrelated forum to an unrelated problem.

You quote the people talking about that unrelated problem as if their reply had been meant for you.

You claim that your problem is common even though all we know is that some people had that other, unrelated, problem.

 

You will excuse that I remain skeptical...

 

I don't know which mod didn't get done right, but one of them didn't.

How do you not know that?

Again, all Vortex does is unpack files, how hard can it be to figure out which file belonging to which mod was not unpacked? Especially to someone claiming they are

a programmer?

 

Except that that manual reinstall suggestion was the one that worked, sidestep or not.

Sure, but a manual reinstall would also have worked if the problem was caused by you using Vortex incorrectly.

If your car is broken and so you can't drive, buying a new one is going to fix that.Even if you're buying the same model.

To the new car it doesn't matter if it was you who broke the old car or if it had a manufacturing error.

You can't go to the car company and say "My old car was broken but the new one works so that's proof that the old one wasn't manufactured right."

Like - that's common sense, no? I'm just not - I don't know how to deal with logic this flawed.

 

Hmm, that's interesting. This is not the suggested solution or situation I was referirng to.

Yeah, do you see what the problem here is? You're being extremely fuzzy about your problem and then you act annoyed when we don't understand what your problem is.

It's your job when you report an issue to provide us with the info we need to understand it.

If you give us no way of verifying your problem, much less fix it and provide no proof that you didn't just use the tool wrong, don't expect anyone to just believe you

that you did everything right and that there is a bug.

I don't believe. I either know or I don't know. Right now I don't know and you're the only person who could change that.

 

It is true. I have so far found no mod managers that reliably install mods. That is why I do it myself, including fomods.

And it never occurred to you that maybe the one constant in all of that is you and not Nexus Mods?

You're welcome to do your mod installs yourself but ffs, don't go around declaring any software you fail to use as bugged.

[soaringcow]

Still I see no hope. Enough.

[Guest deleted34304850]

hope for what?

i hope you read all the posts in these forums and understand where the gaps are in your "reporting" of "issues" and resolve those gaps so that you gain just a basic understanding of how mod managers work and how modding works, and if you have any further issues, you can report your problems with a greater degree of accuracy and fact so that people can help you.

but as they say, it's the hope that kills you.