On publicising formal warnings and bans

[JanusForbeare]

I voted to keep everything public and transparent.

 

Yes, being "outed" on the forums might be embarrassing to the user in question, but they're hardly the victims here. If they've been issued a warning or a ban, it's because they've been behaving in a way that's detrimental to the community. Hiding that fact reduces the severity of the punishment, and increases the likelihood that they'll become repeat offenders.

 

Besides, I enjoy reading through the recent bans and laughing at the reference posts... and the admins' occasionally sarcastic responses. :)

[morrowind1979]

Also I think the person who gots the formal warning or strike should be told via message or some other way that they now have 1 strike or formal warning so they know

[JanusForbeare]

Also I think the person who gots the formal warning or strike should be told via message or some other way that they now have 1 strike or formal warning so they know

 

The new system will make it impossible for the individual in question not to know... Dark has stated that they'll be redirected to a "You have been given a warning" page until they agree not to violate the TOS anymore - a system far more efficient than a simple PM.

[Mabwich]

These are my thought on how bans and warnings should be handled:

 

Make sure the person receiving a warning or a ban knows why.

 

I have at times encountered the "If you don't know, I'm not going to tell you" response when I've apparently done something wrong, but didn't know what. Extremely unhelpful, and almost guaranteed to ensure I did the same wrong thing another time. I feel strongly that if someone gets banned or warned they should be informed of the reason for the ban so they can appeal against it if they wish. I am making this remark because I have seen indications on the forums that some people have been banned without knowing why.

 

Where possible post details of the warning or ban in the same place as the offence was committed.

 

This highlights what is unacceptable and so may discourage others from doing something similar. It also shows victims of the offence that something has been done to remove the problem.

 

Try to find a way of removing accounts by request other than by banning them.

 

It seems overly harsh to me to ban someone, implying to others that they have done something wrong, when they are helping to keep your membership base tidy by requesting the removal of an unwanted account. It also reduces the apparent seriousness of bans because these bans are given when to people who have done nothing wrong. I have a horrible suspicion though that bans are the only way the forum software lets accounts be deleted, so this idea may just not be possible.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Mabwich

[JimboUK]

I'd like to think of warnings as a quiet word, I don't see why they need to be made public although it might be an idea to tell any offended third party so they know their issue has been dealt with. With bans surely "This user has been banned" is enough? it removes the natural temptation to add something like a rolleyes or unnecessary comment to the reason, I understand why staff would sometimes want to vent a little but it doesn't look good.

[ginnyfizz]

it might be an idea to tell any offended third party so they know their issue has been dealt with.

 

That certainly. I would say bans with reasons should stay as they are. The grey area is where a formal warning may indeed have been issued, but the person offended doesn't know about it because it hasn't been publicised, and might out of frustration get themselves into bother.

[demidekidasu]

I think it is important to have it all public.

 

I remember an incident recently where the author of a mod was banned whilst many people were waiting for an update to his mod. I also agree that it demonstrates in clear examples to newer members what they can and cannot do.

 

And public warnings is a good idea in my view as it could present another incentive to obey the rules, i.e. behave or face some negative publicity, sort of thing...

[DrakeTheDragon]

While "venting" by staff members in ban notices or strikes surely isn't the smartest idea (those notices should mostly be kept formal and to the matter, no attacks on the person), the more details you provide the better it is.

The "informal warnings" aren't made public, so that deals with the "first time already being dealt with harshly" argument. Anything more serious than warranting an "informal warning" should be warned with punishment included already anyways, to emphasize how serious it was.

 

I stumbled across many accusations of unwarranted bans and unfair treatment off-site for years, and every time I only needed to go to the ban notices and do a search to know "just another unsubstantial claim". Reading the offence that was banned for word-by-word there invalidated any claims of unfair treatment right away. It even makes the accusations sound ridiculous, when all proof invalidating them is right there with a click on a topic.

 

The transparency is what made the Nexus special. No other place gives as much information about moderator actions and no other place "feels" as protective of its members, as safe and welcoming to those who can play within the rules.

 

Lately for some cause it got a little less transparent, with proof for some bans no longer being publically accessible or sometimes even not presented at all. I was reading accusations of unwarranted bans again and went to read up the proof against them... just this time I was unable to find it... and if I wouldn't be around here for many years already and know better, I could be tempted to "believe" the accusations... if only because they weren't possible to be invalidated anymore, the proof for the offence was missing. Better not to continue down that road.

 

The transparency doesn't hurt the site. It backs up the moderators' actions. There's no use in claiming unfair treatment when the proof against it is always out there for everybody to read. The more transparency there is the better it is for you.

[Lisnpuppy]

I also agree the more transparency the better. Informal warnings I don't think need to be public but we, as the moderators need these new tools being developed to help keep record of such things. I think strikes should be public with some links or explanation also for both the person being issued the strike and the community to understand what it is and why it is.

 

Bans should always be public and have some explanation/link to why and what. Sometimes it is not possible to give a link (or its hidden due to its pure vileness or profanity, etc) or there was some PM horribleness going on. We are not going to give the person being banned a soapbox to spew forth inappropriate things.

 

As for people not knowing they are banned....it almost never, ever happens. A rare case of a banned IP or a burp in the system. People saying they don't know why they are banned usually equates to "I didn't read it" or "I don't know why because I disagree and think the rule is stupid." Trust me if you would see some of the unban request....

 

Now as to telling the "reporter" of an offense that it has been handled...well I would say that has to be a special case basis. For one we would not have time to tell every single reporter that the issue was addressed. There are too many reports and too many multiple reports. Also there is the issue of the person will disagree with the handling...ie..Why didn't you ban him instead of a strike, etc etc.....we also don't have time to do that. There are cases when we let people know things have been handled and why a decision is made....but its not something I think should happen as a regular course just because there just isn't time more than anything else.

 

When you hit that report button either you trust the staff to address it or you don't.

 

Can we as staff improve? Of course there is always room to improve which is one of the reasons this post is up to begin. However we are also human (and we have lives outside the forums as do you all)...we do this for free (trust me...there is no pay here lol) and we all do the best we can each day. We do this because we care about the community and we want to see it continue to grow. I hope that by working with everyone that there can be better application of the rules and more consistency with the knowledge that no report is exactly the same.

[Hickory]

Yes, transparency is the key word here, especially with regard to bans. Also, if a warning is 'formal', it has reached the stage where the user has stepped over the mark in some way already, so there is no reason to withhold information in such a case. Hiding information (ban or warning), provided the information does not hurt the site, it's management OR the person involved (legal reasons etc.), would just lead to rumour mongering in many cases -- keep it open, keep it clean.