Which one is "good", which one is "evil"?

[PolyphonyVibrato]

Since when was Tullius considered the Empire's best general?

 

I didn't say he was the best or a good general, but he does practically rule in Torygg's stead. I know that Skyrim could stand against the Aldmeri for a while, but it's already weakened by the dragons (at least in my play-through =P idiotic townspeople) and Hammerfell may be a good ally but it's all they can do to protect themselves as it is. The country may have the most naturally talented warriors, but they're mostly fighting a sea battle with races known for their advanced skill in magic and archery. In addition to being extremely good at long ranged combat their technology seems more advanced than that of any other race. Their light weight armor yields more protection than the Alik'r basic cloth and scimitar ensamble and as much if not more defense than the typical Nordic steel which is 5-20x heavier. The Redguards, having spent most of their lives in the desert, evidently don't manufacture any thicker, more protective, armor, lest they would be wearing it in Skyrim instead. The redguards may be able to hold their own, but they wont offer Skyrim much support. The Thalmor have already infiltrated most major holds and have a very strong presence in Skyrim. Cyrodiil may be weak but Skyrim and Cyrodiil need each other if they hope to avoid losing all sovereignty to the Elves.

 

Frankly I think all this fighting could have been avoided if the gods had made a high elf a god as well as Talos. The Altmer are just jealous that they're the smartest, most advanced race but are unable to claim relation to a god.

[Ragora]

Frankly I think all this fighting could have been avoided if the gods had made a high elf a god as well as Talos. The Altmer are just jealous that they're the smartest, most advanced race but are unable to claim relation to a god.

 

They can claim relation to a god. Aedra is an elven word that roughly means "Ancestors"

[sajuukkhar9000]

The elves claim many of their kind became demi-gods, such as Syrabane, and Phynaster.

 

But anyways, its impossible to create new Gods. The 8 Aedra are Gods because they gave themselves to the world at its creation, it's impossible to add another one in there because creation is already over.

 

Talos only became a God because he mantled the missing 9th god Lorkhan. Talos wasn't just turned into a new God, he took the place of a missing god.

Edited December 8, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[CasperTheLich]

It’s easy to say mead was weak or foolish

Roggi Knot-Beard disapproves of this message.

 

i don't understand your meaning here... care to clarify?

 

---edit

oh, i must be more brain fried than i thought. it took me a minute. nice. ;D

 

---edit again

and i was nice enough to go back and fix the typo too. :rolleyes:

Edited December 8, 2012 by Invisible Man

[PolyphonyVibrato]

Haha, it was kind of a joke guys. I honestly know little about the god lore in TES and don't particularly care. ^^

[RighthandofSithis]

Since when was Tullius considered the Empire's best general?

 

I didn't say he was the best or a good general' date=' but he does practically rule in Torygg's stead. I know that Skyrim could stand against the Aldmeri for a while, but it's already weakened by the dragons (at least in my play-through =P idiotic townspeople) and Hammerfell may be a good ally but it's all they can do to protect themselves as it is. The country may have the most naturally talented warriors, but they're mostly fighting a sea battle with races known for their advanced skill in magic and archery. In addition to being extremely good at long ranged combat their technology seems more advanced than that of any other race. Their light weight armor yields more protection than the Alik'r basic cloth and scimitar ensamble and as much if not more defense than the typical Nordic steel which is 5-20x heavier. The Redguards, having spent most of their lives in the desert, evidently don't manufacture any thicker, more protective, armor, lest they would be wearing it in Skyrim instead. The redguards may be able to hold their own, but they wont offer Skyrim much support. The Thalmor have already infiltrated most major holds and have a very strong presence in Skyrim. Cyrodiil may be weak but Skyrim and Cyrodiil need each other if they hope to avoid losing all sovereignty to the Elves.

 

Frankly I think all this fighting could have been avoided if the gods had made a high elf a god as well as Talos. The Altmer are just jealous that they're the smartest, most advanced race but are unable to claim relation to a god.

[/quote']

 

Skyrim could hold its own for ages. In fact, an Invasion into Skyrim would be suicide. You either have to occupy Cyrodiil and advance through narrow mountain passages into a hard, hostile and cold land.

 

By sea, well, there are inherent difficulties with lauching a naval invasion aimed at the other side of a continent. Particularly when you are crossing the two most naturally talented sailors in Tamriel (Nords and Redguards), or sailing straight past the Argonians (who love water, and wouldn't take kindly to a fleet sailing strait past them.

 

And how is it that Cyrodiil can lead humanity to victory. Drug Lords and Bandits are tearing the nation apart (Cicero's journal), so how could it have recovered from the Great War? Not to mention the spies and informants the Thalmor have throughout all of the Empire.

 

Now why is it that the Redguards won't assist Skyrim? 2 warrior cultures with a common enemy, and a common border. If during WW2, The Western Allies and the USSR (mortal enemies) could unite, why can;t these two cultures.

 

And the Redguards actually do manufacture rather sophisticated armor, as evident by Daggerfall and the various knightly orders that were a part of that game (and where even mentioned in oblivion). The Alik'r are nomadic desert people, but there are a number of settled, urban Redguards.

Edited December 8, 2012 by RighthandofSithis

[PolyphonyVibrato]

Skyrim could hold its own for ages. In fact, an Invasion into Skyrim would be suicide. You either have to occupy Cyrodiil and advance through narrow mountain passages into a hard, hostile and cold land.

 

By sea, well, there are inherent difficulties with lauching a naval invasion aimed at the other side of a continent. Particularly when you are crossing the two most naturally talented sailors in Tamriel (Nords and Redguards), or sailing straight past the Argonians (who love water, and wouldn't take kindly to a fleet sailing strait past them.

 

And how is it that Cyrodiil can lead humanity to victory. Drug Lords and Bandits are tearing the nation apart (Cicero's journal), so how could it have recovered from the Great War? Not to mention the spies and informants the Thalmor have throughout all of the Empire.

 

Now why is it that the Redguards won't assist Skyrim? 2 warrior cultures with a common enemy, and a common border. If during WW2, The Western Allies and the USSR (mortal enemies) could unite, why can;t these two cultures.

 

And the Redguards actually do manufacture rather sophisticated armor, as evident by Daggerfall and the various knightly orders that were a part of that game (and where even mentioned in oblivion). The Alik'r are nomadic desert people, but there are a number of settled, urban Redguards.

 

Hold it's own for ages? Not if the dragons were as fierce as the ones in the lore (vanilla ones kinda suck), the elves would prove far better at fighting the dragons.

 

Second, what do you mean they would pass the Argonians??? They're from Black Marsh, not High Rock, he Bretons are to the North and sailing around the continent through the Padomaic Ocean would take to long. Their best bet would be to take Cyrodiil(already weak) group with the forces from Morrowind and take the pass that leads up to Riften and work their way West, all the while keeping the Hammerfell occupied with a sea battle. I didn't say they wouldn't support Skyrim, I just doubt they would.

 

In the end the best chance the Imperials and Nords have is to STOP FIGHTING AMONGST THEMSELVES. Disagree if you will, the longer they go without taking a stand against the real threat, the more likely they are to fall to the Thalmor.

[Lachdonin]

I also don't see how the arguement that Skyrim could hold on its own holds water. It's lacking resources (again, food comes from Cyrodiil) and has a history of royally botching military campaigns due to infighting (Morrowind and Highrock, for instance). Even without considering it's weakened state after what is essentially 2 civil wars (Foresworn and Stormcloak) the Dragons and the Vampire attacks, Skyrim doesn't have a history of really throwing off invaders. They lost to the Alessans, the Akiviri, and the Remans, after all, and they all had to go through those so called 'defensable mountain passes'. Really, the only reason more people haven't conquered Skyrim is because it's just so damn cold.

 

Normal military tactics don't nessessarily apply in Tamriel either. For instance, a large body of water should offer a good flank guard, right? Not if the enemy has a bunch of Battlemages to case Water Breathing on their army. letting them just walk accross the bottom. Mountain Passes are great for ambushes... Unless you cast Levitate and just go over them. These are proven tactics in Tamrielic warfare, and with the Thalmor having an obvious advantage when it comes to magic, well... Traditional military notions of defensibility don't apply.

 

I dissagree, however, with your statement, Polyphony, that the Domminion has anyone to group up with in Morrowind. The entire Dunmer mindset is directly opposed to the mentality of the Altmer, and particularly the Thalmor. The Dark Elves would fight tooth and nail against the Domminion, and would in fact be a great asset for the Empire were Morrowind still not in particularly good shape.

 

Still, i agree that any fighting between the Empire and the Stormcloaks only serves to help the Domminion. But since the fighting is enetitable, it's a question on who is the best choice. My oppinion on the matter is well established.

[RighthandofSithis]

I'll respond to both Lachdonin and PolyphonyVibrato at the same time.

 

Geography. The only entrances to Skyrim are through treacherous mountain passes, or by sea. A land assault would mean that the DOminion would have to place a significant number of forces in the cities to occupy them, and then march through the mountains. Remember Hannibal tried this during the Second Punic War and lost 80000 troops out of 100000 (if the roman authors are to be believed). Combine this natural hazard with a Phalanx formation. But as Lach said, they could simply fly over them.

 

Regardless, if they make it past the mountains, they have a new problem, the land itself. Napoleon and Hitler will tell you that invading a hard, cold land will pose significant problems in its own right. And now lets add a number of angry, guerrilla fighting nords (which if you fly right over, happens to be larger). You should be able to see how that will become a strategic nightmare. the Alessian empire entered Skyrim for one battle, and we don;t know what types of tactics the Akaviri could have used in Skyrim 9and they then handed Skyrim to Reman).

 

And an invasion by sea would have to pass either Hammerfell OR Black Marsh, depending if the Aldmeri navy turns left or right. And Lach, I remember debating this with you a while ago, but I still can;t see how any navy can successfully support a long term war on the other side of a continent.

 

And of course the fighting between the Empire and the Stormcloaks aids the Dominion, that's a well established fact, that I will not dispute.

 

But now to the Empire, how can that defend itself from the Dominion? Its riddled with Aldmeri spies, plagued by infighting, corruption and drug lords, and as such can't have recovered from the Great War. The fact that it holds three provinces makes things worse, forcing the Legion to spread itself thin (or hold little to no presence in High Rock).

Edited December 9, 2012 by RighthandofSithis

[PolyphonyVibrato]

Again, if Cyrodiil is as bad as you say, why would they have to travel by coast at all? The more troops the empire sends to Skyrim the easier it will be to take. If they are successful in taking the central province than it's only a matter of time till they have enough resources to utterly crush Skyrim and Hammerfell. As for Morrowind not being friendly with the Aldmeri, they may not be pals, but that doesn't mean they'de side with Skyrim in a conflict, not when the Nords seem to despise them and if the are successful in succeeding from the Empire than they'll have a fascist king. While I agree that Morrowind is not part of the Empire or Thalmor, since the destruction of Red Mountain and the removal of it's heart it has ceased to act as a pillar of reality, so the Thalmor's main interest with the country is the potential military backing and ensuring Talos cultists are unable to evade them by fleeing their. With that in mind I think the Thalmor are working their agents into power in that country like they have in all the others. They aim to unravel reality and cast it back into the spirit world, and this goal can only be achieved if they are able to succeed in getting rid of Talos. Heck, maybe the graybeards are Thalmor empathizers, they do after all tell you to let the world be destroyed by Alduin.