Barrett m82 Sniper Rifle

[Fallout Duck]

a RL reference shot from Wikipedia http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/Sgt_Tanya_Breed.jpg

[SpacemanSpIiff]

mmmm, Tastey.

[SpacemanSpIiff]

Little bit of an update on whats going on. I got this in a PM from Hammonds.

 

 

"...The UVs are in a "usable" state by means of being exportable from Blender into a NIF file but I did not actually finish. I was working on the seams for the main body but did not finish. I used the generic "Smart Projections" just so the export would work.

 

The UVs were not yet combined for use in a single or two texture files. They are all setup as single textures at the moment.

 

The Scope Lens have a special material settings that allows it to inherit the reflections material (assuming it is named the same in Fallout 3 as it is in Oblivion)."

 

He will no Longer be working on UVing it. It can be found here:

 

http://www.mediafire.com/?jiy0jjzv4tn

 

If anyone out there wants to step up, and Finish this thing. Well, its here.

 

Thank you.

[Fnhatic]

This thing is going to be a Big Gun correct? Big Guns are getting the poo end of the stick as far as mods are concerned.

 

EDIT: Never mind, read back. Oh well, I guess that'll work.

 

Not really, considering that either you'd be utterly starved for ammo to feed it, or there'd be so much .50 floating around that you could just use the Barrett through the whole damn game.

 

1) Ammo weight - a mod out there already exists and includes support for mods.

 

2) Strength requirements for weapons - Coming soon?

 

3) .50 ammo in Fallout Tactics was pretty rare, but the thing was, you only needed to fire it once. Therefore keeping it rare should be acceptable, but if the Barrett usurps the role of the M2 in terms of firepower, there is no point. The M2 SHOULD be better than the Barrett.

 

As for the debate about ammo and the like, I think Vash's idea of a master ammo file is the best, along with a secondary mod that supports it (ie: the ammo weight mod, which is an absolute MUST). In addition this will avoid conflicts down the road.

 

What I would like to see some day when we have a CS is support for ammo TYPES. Now, Oblivion let you equip an 'arrow' to use with your bow, which is effectively the exact same thing - instead of shooting a flame arrow with my bow, I'm shooting a 10mm AP with my pistol...

[Wreckless1]

This thing is going to be a Big Gun correct? Big Guns are getting the poo end of the stick as far as mods are concerned.

 

EDIT: Never mind, read back. Oh well, I guess that'll work.

 

Not really, considering that either you'd be utterly starved for ammo to feed it, or there'd be so much .50 floating around that you could just use the Barrett through the whole damn game.

 

1) Ammo weight - a mod out there already exists and includes support for mods.

 

2) Strength requirements for weapons - Coming soon?

 

3) .50 ammo in Fallout Tactics was pretty rare, but the thing was, you only needed to fire it once. Therefore keeping it rare should be acceptable, but if the Barrett usurps the role of the M2 in terms of firepower, there is no point. The M2 SHOULD be better than the Barrett.

 

As for the debate about ammo and the like, I think Vash's idea of a master ammo file is the best, along with a secondary mod that supports it (ie: the ammo weight mod, which is an absolute MUST). In addition this will avoid conflicts down the road.

 

What I would like to see some day when we have a CS is support for ammo TYPES. Now, Oblivion let you equip an 'arrow' to use with your bow, which is effectively the exact same thing - instead of shooting a flame arrow with my bow, I'm shooting a 10mm AP with my pistol...

 

The problem is that with the existing game balance there's zero way to implement the M82 in a way that realistically depicts how much more powerful the .50 BMG round is without making it so powerful as to make an M2's "advantage" in being able to rapidly fire .50 BMG utterly ineffective ammo-wasting overkill when compared to the M82

 

If a sniper rifle firing .308 Winchester/7.62 NATO does 40 damage, the .50 BMG should realistically do at *least* 200, probably more like 250 or 300 honestly.

There isn't a damn thing in the game, except perhaps behemoths, that a 200 damage shot to the head wouldn't be an instakill. To keep up with any sort of modicum of realism, you can't possibly suggest that a .50 BMG round to the head *WOULDN'T* kill anything instantly, muties or power armor or whatever doesn't honestly matter once you get to that level.

So now we've got a 10 shot semiauto that makes for headshot VATS insta-kill with each shot. Thus, the only thing an M2's presence in the game is going to achieve is to guarantee that M82 a lengthy and healthy ammo supply that could guarantee it's use for game-breakingly long periods of time, perhaps even indefinitely. Weight wouldn't fix this, it would only give people that much more motivation to ditch all other weapons for the sake of carrying as much .50 as possible.

 

The biggest issue with AP ammo or any ammo variant is that the way armor and damage resistance works in the Oblivion engine is a cheapshit hackjob excuse for an armor system. I can't forsee a way to make AP effective against armored characters work correctly, leaving FMJ ball ammo as the generic medium and offer JHP or softpoints that do awesome damage against lightly armored characters.

Having dug in the .esm I can't see a way that would work right without a significant amount of additional scripting.

[Weasel_Scourge]

I apologize in advance for any spelling or grammatical errors, I'm very tired, and pretty sick. *ahem* anyways:

 

Wreckless I disagree about the damage that you are suggesting for the "realistic" .50 cal. I may not know as much about guns as you, but I'm pretty sure a .50 isnt between 7 or 8 times more powerful than the .308. And a .308 shot to the face regardless of what kind of stylish headgear you may or may not have, would also kill you instantly. And even though if you got shot in any limb with the .50 call, it would most likely take you awhile to find it, whereas a .308 would probably just punch a huge hole in it, you could just make the gun take so many action points to use in VATS, that you cant possibly shoot it more than once without stopping and switching to an AR or pistol for awhile. So in that way you could just bump the damage to between 70-80 (maybe make 2 files, one more realistic and one more balanced?) or even 100 I dunno, thus hopefully making it your "intro" to a heavy fight, where you can instantly take out 1 of your enemies and then switch to something more conventional. Also by making the ammo incredibly scarce, you can ensure that no one abuses it by going postal and just no-scoping everything in real time, or capping someone and then just finding a nice place to hide until your AP's recharge. I didnt mean for this to be so freakin long, but yeah, hope it helps.

[SpacemanSpIiff]

I apologize in advance for any spelling or grammatical errors, I'm very tired, and pretty sick. *ahem* anyways:

 

Wreckless I disagree about the damage that you are suggesting for the "realistic" .50 cal. I may not know as much about guns as you, but I'm pretty sure a .50 isnt between 7 or 8 times more powerful than the .308. And a .308 shot to the face regardless of what kind of stylish headgear you may or may not have, would also kill you instantly. And even though if you got shot in any limb with the .50 call, it would most likely take you awhile to find it, whereas a .308 would probably just punch a huge hole in it, you could just make the gun take so many action points to use in VATS, that you cant possibly shoot it more than once without stopping and switching to an AR or pistol for awhile. So in that way you could just bump the damage to between 70-80 (maybe make 2 files, one more realistic and one more balanced?) or even 100 I dunno, thus hopefully making it your "intro" to a heavy fight, where you can instantly take out 1 of your enemies and then switch to something more conventional. Also by making the ammo incredibly scarce, you can ensure that no one abuses it by going postal and just no-scoping everything in real time, or capping someone and then just finding a nice place to hide until your AP's recharge. I didnt mean for this to be so freakin long, but yeah, hope it helps.

 

There has been much debate over every attribute associated over the barret. Which is good, it gives the modders ideas in what the community wants. But we just gotta worry about ever getting one into the game first.

[Wreckless1]

I apologize in advance for any spelling or grammatical errors, I'm very tired, and pretty sick. *ahem* anyways:

 

Wreckless I disagree about the damage that you are suggesting for the "realistic" .50 cal. I may not know as much about guns as you, but I'm pretty sure a .50 isnt between 7 or 8 times more powerful than the .308. And a .308 shot to the face regardless of what kind of stylish headgear you may or may not have, would also kill you instantly. And even though if you got shot in any limb with the .50 call, it would most likely take you awhile to find it, whereas a .308 would probably just punch a huge hole in it, you could just make the gun take so many action points to use in VATS, that you cant possibly shoot it more than once without stopping and switching to an AR or pistol for awhile. So in that way you could just bump the damage to between 70-80 (maybe make 2 files, one more realistic and one more balanced?) or even 100 I dunno, thus hopefully making it your "intro" to a heavy fight, where you can instantly take out 1 of your enemies and then switch to something more conventional. Also by making the ammo incredibly scarce, you can ensure that no one abuses it by going postal and just no-scoping everything in real time, or capping someone and then just finding a nice place to hide until your AP's recharge. I didnt mean for this to be so freakin long, but yeah, hope it helps.

 

That sucks about being sick, man.. there's something going around my area too that's putting people down for the count. I hope you get better quick.

 

I've fired several .50 BMG's including an M82 and M107 on several occasions at a variety of targets. I've fired literally tens of thousands of rounds of .308/7.62 NATO. I've done the math comparing the two as part of a project in my physics 260 course.

 

Yes, .50 BMG *IS* that effing powerful compared to .308 and I'm speaking from direct experience with both.

 

 

http://turboninjas.com/gallery/d/44080-1/Lineup.jpg

 

I took this pic for another weapons mod thread to demonstrate a similar point. From the right is a dummy 20x102 electrically primed M61 Vulcan round. The one next to it is a .50 BMG dummy I made when I was 5 from a fired .50 BMG projectile and a casing - note the rifling marks. To the left of the .50 BMG dummy is a 7.62x51 NATO FMJ round and to the left of that is a 308 Winchester softpoint - note the exposed soft lead at the tip.

 

In addition to the obviously massive size difference, just ponder for a moment the physics involved with a projectile weighing almost five times as much and going 200-400 feet per second faster. We could get into momentum and a lot of other fun things while we're at it but I'm pretty sure its obvious without the math. If you're so inclined and your stomach is up to it, there are plenty of images floating around the internet that show what's left when a human target takes a .50 BMG round. Its not pretty.

 

 

I agree that the M82 should definitely require more AP to fire vs most semiautos, to account for its mass and the recoil, what about the M2? the M2 is would be a hell of a handful to hold steady and fire accurately especially since you're firing from the hip. I continue to insist that its impossible to hip fire an M2 effectively regardless of how strong you are or what power armor you're wearing. But what of the M2's AP penalty?

 

Even if that were accounted for, the fundamental way that VATS works and the way it deals with full auto fire and being unable to target multiple enemies so there is ZERO gameplay benefit to adding the M2. In addition, .50 BMG is already overpowered for the game's purposes, and its basically impossible to implement an M2 in a way that makes it any better than the M82 at doing anything but using way more ammo to achieve the exact same result. Its mere presence insures that way more .50 BMG ammo will be found than should be found to keep the M82 balanced as the five foot package of pure whoop ass that it is, etc etc.

 

Bottom line. Hip-fired M2's would do nothing but eff up Fallout 3.

[Weasel_Scourge]

Wow, I stand corrected. I really did not think that the .50 was that much more powerful, but I can see that I was obviously wrong. But partially my point was that both rounds would likely deliver a killing blow if fired near any vital area, so making the .50 cal have 200-300 damage wouldnt be necessary(which is also why I suggested making a balanced one, and a realistic one for the people who would prefer a more realistic .50 cal that did 200-300). And I completely agree with you about the M2, the only plausible way I can see to put that into the game would be to create a different round for it (.50 cal modified or whatever the hell) and rename the gun to something different (like fallout 2 and the Bozar). One of the reasons that the minigun works so well is that it fires rounds even weaker than an m16 or m4, which realistically(i think) would not take down a target even if he was hit several times, it simply lacks the stopping power, so you can have lots of fun and blow 100's of rounds at someone and not feel retarded. And I challenge anyone with the guts to try and fire this http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp289/scootch09/90876289_3e27e878df.jpg from the hip :) . The only potential I can see for an actual honest to god M2 .50 cal in F3 is to wait for a vehicle mod to come out, slap on there, and place boxes of specific M2 ammo out in the wastes for your car(or maybe even your combat brahmen, lol)

 

thanks for correcting me Wreckless.

[Wreckless1]

Wow, I stand corrected. I really did not think that the .50 was that much more powerful, but I can see that I was obviously wrong. But partially my point was that both rounds would likely deliver a killing blow if fired near any vital area, so making the .50 cal have 200-300 damage wouldnt be necessary(which is also why I suggested making a balanced one, and a realistic one for the people who would prefer a more realistic .50 cal that did 200-300). And I completely agree with you about the M2, the only plausible way I can see to put that into the game would be to create a different round for it (.50 cal modified or whatever the hell) and rename the gun to something different (like fallout 2 and the Bozar). One of the reasons that the minigun works so well is that it fires rounds even weaker than an m16 or m4, which realistically(i think) would not take down a target even if he was hit several times, it simply lacks the stopping power, so you can have lots of fun and blow 100's of rounds at someone and not feel retarded. And I challenge anyone with the guts to try and fire this http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp289/scootch09/90876289_3e27e878df.jpg from the hip :) . The only potential I can see for an actual honest to god M2 .50 cal in F3 is to wait for a vehicle mod to come out, slap on there, and place boxes of specific M2 ammo out in the wastes for your car(or maybe even your combat brahmen, lol)

 

thanks for correcting me Wreckless.

 

 

You are most welcome my good man :) Thanks for the thanks!

 

I agree that a vehicle mounted M2 wouldn't be a bad idea - another idea might be to rig up an M2 onto a Behemoth as a creature-specific weapon - that'd make things interesting! Plus since it would be a rare enemy it'd add to the excitement of getting a small heap of .50 BMG ammo when you looted it!

 

 

PS those look like subcaliber AP sabot rounds that are loaded into the Ma Deuce in your pic. Nasty stuff!