Obama: Worst president in the last 100 years

[colourwheel]

Just watched Biden's Afghan speech.

 

He basically called Obama a coward and liar keeping us in Afghanistan.

 

Worst President in 100 years.

 

This comment made me laugh out loud while I was reading this at my desk at work... thanks for the good laugh.

 

How convenient to just paint Obama the worst president in 100 years over a miscalculation that's been at the heart of our nation for over 20 years. Every predecessor that's held the office Since we been in this 20 year never ending war has failed to tell us the truth. If we want to be honest where the blame is held you can Blame Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden.

 

The Bush administration hold the most blame for starting this war while continuing to deceive the public about the truth of what was really happening in Afghanistan.

 

Obama is to blame for perpetually misleading the public about what was really going on in Afghanistan.

 

Trump is to blame for the continued deception of what was really going on in Afghanistan as well as even negotiating with the Taliban with out the Afghan's having a say to the agreement we made with the Taliban to make a full withdrawal of our military.

 

Now Biden is to blame for the disastrous withdraw which was simply upholding the deal Trump made with the Taliban in the 1st place.

 

Seriously, Obama is the least out of the four administrations to be pointing any fingers at. But I guess it's convenient to just simply baselessly call Obama the worst president in 100 years if it helps you sleep better because OMG under his administration the Afghanistan lie perpetuated...

Edited August 17, 2021 by colourwheel

[Aurielius]

It's quite amusing to read the rationalizations of why this cluster f**K is not Biden's fault. This has nothing to do with the strategic withdrawal from Afghanistan.

A retreat while in contact with the enemy is among the most difficult of maneuvers to pull off. Biden is in charge therefor it's his fault on how it was handled.

You cannot excuse the C&C of grand tactical errors unless you would like admit he doesn't know what he is doing.

This is going to go down historically as the Fall of Saigon 2.0

[Lisnpuppy]

Appears that the Republicans quietly removed from I believe the RNC website (it may have been another republican site I'm not 100% on that part) about the glorious and wonderful peace Trump brokered with the Taliban. The peace that allowed us to leave and they pinky swore they would be good boys after we left. You know, the same negotiations that we did not invite the actual Afgan government that we were propping up......

[colourwheel]

Appears that the Republicans quietly removed from I believe the RNC website (it may have been another republican site I'm not 100% on that part) about the glorious and wonderful peace Trump brokered with the Taliban. The peace that allowed us to leave and they pinky swore they would be good boys after we left. You know, the same negotiations that we did not invite the actual Afgan government that we were propping up......

 

It was the RNC here you can see from the waybackmachine how the RNC has decided to whitewashi history this weekend.

 

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/568008-rnc-post-trump-peace-deal-taliban-pre-2021-items-offline-during-site-maintenance

 

When you actually try to access the page they suddenly removed over the weekend it takes you straight to this...

 

https://gop.com/president-trump-is-bringing-peace-to-the-middle-east-rsr/

 

This is just another example of how the GOP is trying to whitewash history beyond what has happened on January 6th. I come to the conclusion that I will never vote Republican again even locally because it's hard to trust a pollical party that conveniently makes up lies, tries obvious attempts to whitewash history and spreads misinformation even about a serious pandemic. The GOP even locally where I live is just as dangerous as Trump himself trying to govern my state.

Edited August 17, 2021 by colourwheel

[Aurielius]

Appears that the Republicans quietly removed from I believe the RNC website (it may have been another republican site I'm not 100% on that part) about the glorious and wonderful peace Trump brokered with the Taliban. The peace that allowed us to leave and they pinky swore they would be good boys after we left. You know, the same negotiations that we did not invite the actual Afgan government that we were propping up......

My argument was strictly military and you have not refuted it's premise. A commander is responsible for the welfare and conduct of his men, that military truism goes back to the Peloponnesian Wars. Biden is our C*&C , he gets to take credit for well performed military missions as well as take responsibility for cluster f**ks.

[colourwheel]

 

My argument was strictly military and you have not refuted it's premise. A commander is responsible for the welfare and conduct of his men, that military truism goes back to the Peloponnesian Wars. Biden is our C*&C , he gets to take credit for well performed military missions as well as take responsibility for cluster f**ks.

 

 

With this type of logic you will be perpetually blaming every President who inherits the problems created by their predecessors. Simply to write this off as if Biden is to be solely blamed for Afghanistan is a very short sighted way of thinking. Maybe Biden does get the credit but it certainly isn't his fault alone.

Edited August 17, 2021 by colourwheel

[ScytheBearer]

 

Appears that the Republicans quietly removed from I believe the RNC website (it may have been another republican site I'm not 100% on that part) about the glorious and wonderful peace Trump brokered with the Taliban. The peace that allowed us to leave and they pinky swore they would be good boys after we left. You know, the same negotiations that we did not invite the actual Afgan government that we were propping up......

My argument was strictly military and you have not refuted it's premise. A commander is responsible for the welfare and conduct of his men, that military truism goes back to the Peloponnesian Wars. Biden is our C*&C , he gets to take credit for well performed military missions as well as take responsibility for cluster f**ks.

 

 

Anyone who has ever spent time in the green and tan will tell you that the President has NO control over the tactical operations in the field. The president can say "I want x, y and z, but it is his JCS and Commanding Generals which create a strategy to make the Presidents desires a reality.

 

And the Generals only make strategy. The actual tactical plans come from the commanders in the arena. And those tactical plans are implemented by junior officers in the field, and executed by grunts.

 

So blaming Bush or Biden, or Obama or (gulp) even Trump for the tactical failure is wrongheaded. For the original policy and the direction given to the JCS et al, absolutely. But if the strategy failed in the field, it is the tactical planners and fields commanders that f%^ked things up.

 

Real world, a rich man says I want to go to the airport. His secretary makes the reservations for the ride and sets the time and place. The chauffeur drives the limousine. Is the rich man responsible if the chauffeur runs a red light and hits another car? Or gets lost? Or falls asleep?

 

More real world, Truman fired Dugout Douglas Mc Author because, as an arena commander, his tactical plans for the Pacific War failed to follow the strategic direction that the President had been given by the military commandants in Washington. He was f%^cking things up at too high a level and Truman got fed up.

Edited August 17, 2021 by ScytheBearer

[Lisnpuppy]

 

 

Appears that the Republicans quietly removed from I believe the RNC website (it may have been another republican site I'm not 100% on that part) about the glorious and wonderful peace Trump brokered with the Taliban. The peace that allowed us to leave and they pinky swore they would be good boys after we left. You know, the same negotiations that we did not invite the actual Afgan government that we were propping up......

 

My argument was strictly military and you have not refuted it's premise. A commander is responsible for the welfare and conduct of his men, that military truism goes back to the Peloponnesian Wars. Biden is our C*&C , he gets to take credit for well performed military missions as well as take responsibility for cluster f**ks.

Anyone who has ever spent time in the green and tan will tell you that the President has NO control over the tactical operations in the field. The president can say "I want x, y and z, but it is his JCS and Commanding Generals which create a strategy to make the Presidents desires a reality.

 

And the Generals only make strategy. The actual tactical plans come from the commanders in the arena. And those tactical plans are implemented by junior officers in the field, and executed by grunts.

 

So blaming Bush or Biden, or Obama or (gulp) even Trump for the tactical failure is wrongheaded. For the original policy and the direction given to the JCS et al, absolutely. But if the strategy failed in the field, it is the tactical planners and fields commanders that f%^ked things up.

 

Real world, a rich man says I want to go to the airport. His secretary makes the reservations for the ride and sets the time and place. The chauffeur drives the limousine. Is the rich man responsible if the chauffeur runs a red light and hits another car? Or gets lost? Or falls asleep?

 

More real world, Truman fired Dugout Douglas Mc Author because, as an arena commander, his tactical plans for the Pacific War failed to follow the strategic direction that the President had been given by the military commandants in Washington. He was f%^cking things up at too high a level and Truman got fed up.

Well, truth be told MacArthur did quite a bit more than screw up some of that. My grandfather was an infantry grunt in the Philippines and was later waiting on the ships to attack mainland Japan and then served in occupied Japan. He was not so thrilled with him. Lol

 

MacArthur and Truman's relationship was fraught with difficulties. What broke the proverbial camel's back his not just ignoring strategy but 100% ignoring direct orders from Truman and the War Department during the Korean War. He also failed to recollect that loose lips sink careers because he spoke out openly against Truman's plans for the peninsula which did not include the reunification of the nation. MacArthur pushed the back North well past the 38th parallel and had every intention to continue on up into Communist China. MacArthur was right about China though.

 

Now, why I agree most Commander-in-chief do not drawl up strategic battle plans and keep their request in what goals do we wish to accomplish that does not let them out of responsibility. Even Truman said, the buck stops here. How much Biden actually contributed to this stupid that is happening I can not say yet because I would really like to know how much he knew about the issues in Afganistan while he was V.P. I know he had no real influence or ability here to make things happen but zi have to,assum, e he knew the American people were being lied to about Afganistan the entire time.

 

I think more like Colourwheel in that every president on both sides did little to help these issues. Trump "negotiations" were, if I'm being charitable....well I believe my Boston Terrier Bean could have done just as good of a job. You dont negotiate about turning over the country to the official government you have spent 20 years propping up with only the adversary at the table and no government. I'm sure they were already well aware, but in case a few were slow I am sure seeing this made the Taliban leaders think, 'great...the Americans dont even have faith or respect to the government they put into place. It seems that just about anyone knew how this was going to go down.

 

Regardless, none of this was going to end well and that goes for ten years ago or 20 more into the future.. Whatever lack of appetite the US citizenry has for more "forever wars" it has even less for grround troops being deployed on a wide scale. That was the only way, along with a crap ton of actually field diplomacy and a better working knowledge of Afganistan. That place has had very little in the way of central governments until we got involved. It had and sort of still has local rulers and war chiefs. We needed to teach their army to be more self reliant, teach them more minuteman skills and less Redcoat. They needed to learn to fight guerilla style, to use more basic tech to communicate, negotiation skills, not relying on American backup with air forces or off-shore carrier attacks which they do not have. We should have insisted that the Afgans paid the military on time. You'd be surprised how much loyalty a good paycheck gets you. But most of all, the US should have insisted that the massive corruption that was flourishing with all the billions we put in it, end. That is why the entire Afgan government got the hell out of dodge.like 2 days ago leaving their military and people to fend for themselves. I wonder if they managed to drag some golden toilet seats or bath fixtures with them.

 

I think it is also shameful that we have basically not gotten out those Afgans who gave us direct help like interpreters. None of those folks are going to see too many more sunrises I'd say.

 

This entire mess needs a commission to look into it since it is 20 years of work and billions of dollars. The next time we need to do some military things out in the world for whatever reason, the goal needs to be limited, clear, obtainable and in a very tight timeline. No staying or building huge military airports, no nation building, no spreading American democracy. Just get in, finish it and leave.

 

All presidents bear responsibility in this matter. Biden has not been president long to have made most of the mess, but he had to have known this was a possible outcome. If he did not then all his info military people need fired. I think everyone from Bush to Biden all share some responsibility as they were all in government during this time. Does Biden deserve all the blame? Of course not. Republican and Democrat presidents all alike have done nothing really to fix it and the Congress, who needs to take back their power regarding letting the president run military programs Congresspeople Congresspeople disapprove of have not voted upon. But they all had to know that things were not going as described yet nothing of substance was done.

 

Sorry for my mini-book here guys and the typos/misspellings/etc etc etc. It is like 210am here now. Lol

[MrJoseCuervo]

The Taliban see weakness and exploit it. Things would have turned out differently with a leader in the Whitehouse.

[Aurielius]

 

 

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Anyone who has ever spent time in the green and tan will tell you that the President has NO control over the tactical operations in the field. The president can say "I want x, y and z, but it is his JCS and Commanding Generals which create a strategy to make the Presidents desires a reality.

 

And the Generals only make strategy. The actual tactical plans come from the commanders in the arena. And those tactical plans are implemented by junior officers in the field, and executed by grunts.

 

So blaming Bush or Biden, or Obama or (gulp) even Trump for the tactical failure is wrongheaded. For the original policy and the direction given to the JCS et al, absolutely. But if the strategy failed in the field, it is the tactical planners and fields commanders that f%^ked things up.

 

Real world, a rich man says I want to go to the airport. His secretary makes the reservations for the ride and sets the time and place. The chauffeur drives the limousine. Is the rich man responsible if the chauffeur runs a red light and hits another car? Or gets lost? Or falls asleep?

 

More real world, Truman fired Dugout Douglas Mc Author because, as an arena commander, his tactical plans for the Pacific War failed to follow the strategic direction that the President had been given by the military commandants in Washington. He was f%^cking things up at too high a level and Truman got fed up.

 

You need to read your history, MacArthur was fired for his insubordination in Korea not the conduct of the Pacific War. I know the Pentagon, I served there and most of them are notable for their brown noses not their military acumen. Who you decide to listen to is on you not your predecessor. Just as Obama reaped the accolades for getting UBL though the ground work was Bush's, Biden was holding the controls when Kabul fell.