IDEA - Custom Ammo and Workbenches

[LHammonds]

Here are some ideas I have about ammo and workbenches. I do not plan to create such a mod since I do not have time to do so but I might contribute some custom models for it.

 

- Custom / Unique workbenches for specific purposes (such as only for creating ammo).

- Re-use spent shells or have the capability of creating them from base materials.

- Ability to repair weapons based on base components + weapon skills affecting the percentage repaired each time.

 

Discussion for Custom Workbenches

 

Would be awesome to have these benches capable of being picked up and added to your inventory but with a heavy weight requirement (for moving from one location to another). It would also need to be physically heavy so it doesn't move around too easily where you arrange them (such as outside your home). Each workbench would need to be tailored for a specific duty such as just creating bullets or just creating flame gas or breaking down / melting just about anything into base material such as a bar of metal rather than just scrap metal. The initial "models" could be the vanilla workbench with a different name and if this proves to be a popular idea, might include custom workbench models in a later revision.

 

Examples of some things that can be broken down into components (some are currently non-standard items):

- Hunting Rifle --> 2 Scrap Metal or 4 metal bars, 2 Wood Strips

- Nail Board --> 1 Scrap Metal or 2 metal bars, 2 Wood Strips

- Switchblade --> 1 Scrap Metal or 2 metal bars

- 30 .22 Bullets --> 1 Scrap Metal or 2 metal bars, 1 Box of Powder, 30 .22 Shell Casings

- 20 .308 Bullets --> 1 Scrap Metal or 2 metal bars, 1 Box of Powder, 20 .308 Shell Casings

- 10 .44 Bullets --> 1 Scrap Metal or 2 metal bars, 1 Box of Powder, 20 .44 Shell Casings

 

Example #1: Ammo Reloading

 

1. You find a weapon and some of its ammo (ammo schematic auto-added upon first discovery of ammo or weapon)

2. When you fire a round, a spent shell casing hits the ground near where you are standing (preferably to the right-rear of your location)

3. You pick up your spent shells when the firefight is over. (or grab and run for your life)

4. You go back to your custom ammo reloader workbench and reload your ammo. e.g. 1 scrap metal + 1 box of powder + 10 empty casings = 10 bullets.

5. You use 1 scrap metal to repair a certain percentage of your weapon (varies based on your armor skill + gun skill)

 

Example #2: Ammo Creation

 

1. You find a weapon and some of its ammo (ammo schematic auto-added upon first discovery of ammo or weapon)

2. You go back to your custom ammo reloader workbench and create new ammo. e.g. 1 scrap metal + 1 box of powder = 10 bullets.

3. You use 1 scrap metal to repair a certain percentage of your weapon (varies based on your armor skill + gun skill)

 

Discussion for Example #1: Ammo Reloading

 

The ability to create ammo would mean a "schematic" would need to exist but I think it should be scripted into inventory the 1st time the weapon is picked up. I think anyone would be able to reverse-engineer a bullet by simply having access to the original materials. A schematic for creating another (modified) weapon however would be a different story. wink.gif It would also have to be figured out how to handle a lesser amount of actual empty casings than what the schematic calls for. If you only have 5 shells total, I think you should have the option of wasting an entire scrap metal piece to make however many empty shells you have in your inventory up to the maximum amount that is allowed for that piece of scrap metal rather than not allowing you to make the bullets if you do not have enough empty shells. This might be a little bit of a kink in the plan if this cannot be modified to work similar to Oblivion soul gems. wink.gif

 

This could be a bit too problematic to implement in-game with shells disappearing quickly, rolling away, not being ejected for NPCs like it does for the play and even FPS issues.

 

There is also the possibility for an Ammo Reloading skill as suggested by vashts1985.

 

Discussion for Example #2: Ammo Creation

 

Items that can be designated to build bullets could be:

- Wrenches, Scrap Metal, Metal Bars

- Gun Powder

 

Or a system of converting items to base components to be used as building blocks for schematics. Such as schematics only using Metal Bars and Gun Powder as the ingredients. Both of which are created by other stuff found in the game.

 

The balancing factor here would be the Gun Powder. You breakdown existing ammo into basic components of metal and gun powder to create other ammo types. Grenades could yield much more gun powder than a single bullet and a single .44 bullet would yield more powder than the smallest bullet. You could go so far as to convert pencils by extracting the lead where 10 pencils could yield enough metal to make a single bullet. ;)

 

Miscellaneous

 

Something else to consider are bullet content effects. If a type of bullet can be made that affects the damage for a gun, you could possibly have several kinds of ammo for a gun that affects enemies differently.

 

Armor Penetrating rounds = Ball Ammo from Dense Steel Metal (double amount of metal usage during creating). Good for penetrating metal bodies but doing little damage to flesh.

Hollow-Point rounds = Hollow Tipped Ammo from Lead Metal. Good for damaging creatures (including humans) + Increased chance for dismemberment.

Rad rounds = Poison-encased ammo from Lead Metal. Extra damage against non-mutant creatures (including humans)

 

LHammonds

[Angelsilhouette]

I still like the idea of picking up the deed for it when you found it (and the barret), having the deed function like the "deed" for your work bench or nuka cola machine in your house.

[vashts1985]

id say if possible add a whole new skill set for ammo reloading. from what i understand reloading brass is kinda a art, and would require a bit more than a schematic and some general repair knowledge. but the real justification would be to help balance these increased level cap mods....right now the only problem i see with them is that the game is balanced around 20 lvls, meaning that 20 lvls gives you enugh points to make a few decisive skills maxed, if you increase the lvl cap it could unbalance the skills and to be honest, god characters are amusing for a bit but it just loses the fun factor of building a character.

 

my .02

[LHammonds]

The balancing factor here is the powder. You breakdown existing ammo to get the powder. But for the more advanced stuff, it would require stuff to be broken down / refined into a basic component such as a measurement of metal or powder.

 

This would need to be a master ammo modifier so it would work with a lot of custom mods.

 

LHammonds

[SpacemanSpIiff]

*Post moved from its original home in the barret m82 thread*

 

Excellent Idea Hammonds,

 

a foreseeable problem is (and ive noticed this) is that often times the bullets roll away...and like to roll down hill, which makes collecting shells such a pain, also, Shells like to disapear over time, making it even more dificult to collect your brass.

 

So i suggest you get the capability to turn some scrap metal into the shells instead.

 

Another thing is I hope that this would become an essential mod to the point that every custom gun with custom PROJECTILE Ammunition will have compatibility.

[LHammonds]

Another thing is I hope that this would become an essential mod to the point that every custom gun with custom PROJECTILE Ammunition will have compatibility.

Any mod that handles ammo and the loot list will need to be devised as a common master plugin that will include custom ammo by various authors in an attempt to make it an essential pre-requisite that can be installed immediately after installing the game so it can blend seamlessly with the base install of the game...quite possibly not even actually place any of the custom ammo in-game (such as being an ESM master file only).

 

Player mods that use weapons requiring ammo of a certain type could pull from this master file to place ammo to containers, vendors or buildings they create.

 

Another option would be to include a basic plugin to disperse the various ammo types in loot lists. If this were done, I would kind of expect at least one custom weapon in the resource to be included that utilizes the new ammo type so the ammo would not start showing up and not have any capacity for using it.

 

This really makes me think of a similar project for Oblivion that was even larger in scope: Cobl (Common Oblivion)

 

LHammonds

[melkson]

Having a 'perk' you can learn from an NPC to 'create ammo' would be a good way to go.

 

I'm against scrounging shells. Make shells from your scrap metal.

 

Scrounging powder from ammo types is a good idea! Same with grenades. Make or scrap them.

 

Maybe 'Refine' scrap metal into several 'bars'? 1 Scrap metal = 2 steel bars, 1 copper bar, 1 iron bar?

 

Definably the ability to break down weapons. both for scrap metal, or select components. '.32cal long barrel, bolt action receiver, 1 wood bar' from a hunting rifle for example. Then I could break down an assault rifle into '.223 long barrel, full auto receiver, 1 wood bar', and finally assemble '.32cal long barrel, full auto receiver, 1 wood bar' into a .32cal full auto rifle.

 

of course to do the above, somebody would have to make specs for all the permutations that could be made, but that's not too many. Current models could be used.

[SpacemanSpIiff]

The idea of breaking down weapons into their componets, and possibly breaking down the componets into scrap, and then turning that scrap into ammunition would really help all these custom weapons get their supply of ammunition.

[dra6o0n]

I've got a good idea of how to pickup those ammo without even needing to see them.

Have a script count how many shots you fire and any ammo types, and compile a list of them.

Make a item that, once used, opens a container with all those ammo shells inside.

 

To make it more realistic in finding ammo, maybe a low level perk called "Reduce Reuse Recycle" That allows you to automatically pickup ammo shells you've used up and put them in a global container (your ammo box for casing basically), and the item in your inventory opens up the container allowing you to only withdraw ammo casing (no depositing or people will abuse it for global storage).

[melkson]

I like that perk. Make is so every X shells = 1 copper/brass bar. Keeping track of individual counts of each shell type would require alot of extra work. You could even gar a 'bonus' number of shells from casting them as you are more efficient at doing the work. Maybe 10%?

 

Yes, converting components into metal bars would be an excellent idea. There should be some loss in the system though. Maybe make each bar weigh .1, but have a 20% loss when converting something into bars? So a 1 lb barrel would only make 8 .1 bars? (9 with the above perk?)

 

Also, creating things would require Repair, and skill in the appropriate area.

 

Maybe make receivers non-craftable, just salvageable? There has to be a few choke points in weapons creation. 5 kinds of receivers? Bolt Action, Revolver, semi-automatic, Burst, Full Auto? 5 ammo types? (.32, .44, 5.56, 5mm, shotgun?) Total of 25 basic configurations? (minus a few obvious ones like bolt action shotguns)

 

Edit: thinking about it, remove shotguns from the craftable list. They would require custom models to look right. (unless of course somebody would make these models)