dress up dolls and hello kitty?

[ginnyfizz]

Why is it always assumed that the so-called non lore friendly content is of low quality? I have friends who mod the kind of stuff that people have their knives into and I can assure you that they are highly skilled people, at least one of whom is highly capable of creating quests and worldspaces and complex AI/companion/dialogue stuff.

 

Since Bethesda always changes the lore around anyway, I don't really buy the term lore friendly. The issue I have is that where armor is concerned for example, people take lore friendly to be total coverage tin can armor which would be completely useless in combat, since you would not be able to move in it. Flash any flesh and people are sucking their teeth and tutting. I bet if old Ceteshwayo is looking down from the clouds now and reading this kind of thread, he might wonder if he was dreaming when his somewhat less than heavily clad but totally awesome Zulu warriors knocked eight bells out of the British army when the Empire was at it's height.

[Xaranth]

@ginnyfizz -Rorke's Drift: Never Forget. ;)

[Dark0ne]

For people complaining about lack of filter options; are you using the "Block tags" feature?

[TrickyVein]

Why is it always assumed that the so-called non lore friendly content is of low quality?

 

Usually don't have to assume. Don't conflate technical prowess with artistry or creative vision, other things that you want to associate with quality. Ultimately it comes down to opinion, but we'd be wrong to think that pretty graphics = quality content. A game like New Vegas appeals to a different audience than this (obv - it's downright ugly in some areas).

[llamaRCA]

In their absence, we have the masses (who have always been around) who produce crap. This is normal.

 

I feel compelled to bring up the fact that you released a mod not too long ago :tongue: and that there are plenty of experienced modders still around. Besides, "the masses" as you call them are just inexperienced modders gaining experience. It's foolish to expect full fledged modders to be born with complete knowledge. Everyone starts out knowing nothing.

 

 

@Everyone

Re: lore v non-lore v who cares

 

It's a single player game. It's a waste of energy to waste any time fussing about it, imo. Especially since it is all free. If you don't like a mod don't put it in your game. If you aren't interested in the hot files don't bother to look at them. If you don't want girls in skimpy outfits in your game avoid those files. It's not the community's responsibility to make the mods you want; it's your responsibility to find the ones you want in your game.

 

If you still feel that things aren't good enough when you've got a site like this to come to, one that does it's best to provide a good experience for both modders and players and, most important to this discussion, where all of the mods are free...well, you can always learn to mod yourself to get what you want into the game. That's how/why most modders start.

[Guest deleted2159825]

Many's focus has shifted to Skyrim and the technology Bethesda will be using to create Fallout 4, which is understandable. I think I'd be one of them if I had better hardware. New Vegas is great, but was already dated when it first came out. Talented modder's should always want to be improving their craft and keeping up with the industry. In their absence, we have the masses (who have always been around) who produce crap. This is normal.

 

I'll admit that I made a concerted effort to gain familiarity with the CK this past summer, and even released a tiny quest plugin after working through the tutorials. This was motivated by my own designs for TES (which is where I started modding), and to be ready for FO4 (particularly if it uses Papyrus, which is bitchy at times). There's a good chance I'll revisit Skyrim later this year after I've finished a few New Vegas mods I've got lined up. I certainly can't speak for other modders, but I've found it difficult to focus on modding one title for extended periods. I could never make a switch from Fallout to TES (or vice versa) and never look back.

 

More importantly, as long as New Vegas is the latest iteration of the series, it's my go-to setting for Fallout mods. When FO4 comes out, provided it's not a streamlined, vapid turd, then I will put New Vegas to rest, just as I (and many, but not all modders) did with Oblivion back in 11/11/11. Then again, Morrowind still has an active community (or so I'm told), so go figure.

 

As for "Lore-Friendliness"... it's really up to the player, which is one of the great strengths in using mods. When I first visited the Nexus, I was surprised to find modern weapons for Oblivion, Anime content for FO3, etc., but I quickly realized that these were simply more options on the table, nothing more. Better yet, they were free options.

 

I make quest mods, which tend to excite strong opinions and acute expectations from players due to the highly subjective nature of quest content. Some refuse to play quest mods without voice acting, while others avoid the category entirely, dismissing it as an ersatz imitation of vanilla content. As a result, I'm reluctant to judge the work of fellow modders, even if the content doesn't fit my personal tastes or playing style. If someone wants to add psychedelic ponies s***ing sparkles across the Mojave, so be it. In the meantime, I'll go back to getting drunk and penning long, delirious strings of profanity amidst ultra-violence, and then calling it a quest. To each their own.

 

@ginnyfizz -Rorke's Drift: Never Forget. ;)

 

Hell, that engagement, along with Zulu and Zulu Dawn are what inspired the title and style of one of my upcoming mods.

 

there are plenty of experienced modders still around

 

Llama, I guess we're some of "The masses"... ;)

[ginnyfizz]

Why is it always assumed that the so-called non lore friendly content is of low quality?

 

Usually don't have to assume. Don't conflate technical prowess with artistry or creative vision, other things that you want to associate with quality. Ultimately it comes down to opinion, but we'd be wrong to think that pretty graphics = quality content. A game like New Vegas appeals to a different audience than this (obv - it's downright ugly in some areas).

 

You are obviously determined to ignore what I actually said since you quoted my post somewhat selectively. What makes you think that the modders I am referring to know nothing of artistry and creative vision? It takes not only technical ability but creativity to create some of the "non lore friendly" mods that I can think of. And I never said that pretty graphics necessarily equates to quality content. Firstly the two are not mutually exclusive, secondly I was not referring to pretty graphics in particular. Quote me if you must, but for goodness sake don't misquote me. And especially do not condescend and be disrespectful of the work that others do. Take a leaf out of someguy2000's book, as he said, he is

 

"reluctant to judge the work of fellow modders, even if the content doesn't fit my personal tastes or playing style. If someone wants to add psychedelic ponies s***ing sparkles across the Mojave, so be it. In the meantime, I'll go back to getting drunk and penning long, delirious strings of profanity amidst ultra-violence, and then calling it a quest. To each their own."

 

Amen to that.

 

Yay Rorke's Drift, watched the film Zulu the other day, by Jove that was a case of stiff upper lips chaps, not to mention a barrel of Victoria Crosses...

[TrickyVein]

I'm clarifying things for you. We actually agree with one another.

 

I think I addressed pretty concisely the meat of your argument, or challenge, that (perhaps) there is this belief, widely held, that 'non-lore friendly' mods do not possess the same quality as 'lore-friendly' mods - am I right so far? - and I would say no, there isn't - we have to be careful when we throw around this word quality because as I point out, and as you agree, technical grasp =/= merit, and we'd be incorrect in thinking that there is a difference in merit between lore-friendly and non lore-friendly content (except that which isn't purely a matter of opinion) and furthermore, arguing that non lore-friendly mods have just as much time, effort and brains behind them as other kinds does not give them merit.

 

See, I'm addressing this issue from a bit of an esoteric vantage-point. I'm trying to generalize. As other's have posted and probably indicated, this probably isn't very useful because at some point we have to call each other out by names - which I haven't done and don't think it fair that I should. I'd hoped that other people would abstain from doing this.

[nivea]

Why is it always assumed that the so-called non lore friendly content is of low quality?

 

Usually don't have to assume. Don't conflate technical prowess with artistry or creative vision, other things that you want to associate with quality. Ultimately it comes down to opinion, but we'd be wrong to think that pretty graphics = quality content. A game like New Vegas appeals to a different audience than this (obv - it's downright ugly in some areas).

 

Honestly it sounds like your insulting the mods by saying "Usually don't have to assume." which to me means, you dont have to assume because they ARE lower quality. The wording is either odd or poorly chosen which is why I think Ginny was thinking your meaning was a jab at the non lore mods.

[Appendant]

For those complaining that revealing female armor is not lore - then the vanilla Forsworn must somehow not be lore. :whistling: (Oh, but that's different because the game maker put that in. http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f351/charonn0/ohgeez-1.gif)

 

There is a difference between lore and lore-friendly. The vanilla Forsworn outfits are lore because they're created by the developers of the game. If someone added an extra outfit to the Forsworn that was in the same vein as the vanilla outfits (made of animal fur/skins, decorated by skulls, has a kind of "tribal" look etc.), that would be lore-friendly but it wouldn't be lore. By contrast, if someone created a mod that made every female Forsworn have insanely disproportionate breasts and dressed them all in skimpy modern lingerie, that isn't lore, nor is it lore-friendly.

 

For people complaining about lack of filter options; are you using the "Block tags" feature?

 

Yeah. However, images can't be tagged the same way files can, so they're still visible.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Appendant