You’re just a an unimportant piece of some game *Contains major spoile

[blackninja50]

Ho, so your saying that as long as talking to someone is needed to start the quest even if the dialog isn't started by you it doesn't count as being started "just by walking past two NPC in conversation"? Even tho walking past them is what triggers the dialogue that starts the quest? Fine then.

 

1. Dawnguard is added to your journal if you walk past a guard and he says "Heard they're reforming the Dawnguard. Vampire hunters or something, in the old fort near Riften. Might consider joining up myself."

2. Surgery is added to your journal if you walk past a guard and he says "People say there's someone in Riften that can... change your face. Make you look completely different. Do you believe that?"

 

I believe there's more but I have yet to do all the quests and don't fell like looking up every quest in the game to check. So yes quests CAN be started just by walking past an NPC thats talking.

[ArtMurder]

 

-It makes sense to become Lister if its your destiny since you are sithis incarnate, the hands of Padhome, a Ahezzarne, and Dragonborn. Avatar of Akatosh, Akatosh who is Lorkhan, Lorkhan who is the son of Sithis.

 

 

Just saying - Akatosh and Lorkhan are brothers, not the same deity, and Lorhkan was killed by Akatosh a long long long long long time ago. Morrowind tells a pretty good bit of that story, and what it doesn't tell can be discovered by looking up stories on the heart of Lorkhan.

 

I do agree with the point though, I honestly felt like people UNDER reacted to you in the dark brotherhood, I would have loved to see an internal war break out, instead of one cheap assassination attempt.

 

Other then that though, I do wish the stories had been more 'fluff out', yeah, impossible circumstances do happen, but to happen 5 times in a row to the same person? Even for the dragonborn, that's a little silly. I feel like the magesguild could have been MUCH longer mostly.

 

I just hate that I can complete every main quest line in skyrim in under 30 hours, in oblivion that took close to 100 hours, and no matter how much better thought out the story is in skyrim, it is still unpleasantly short. In oblivion, I felt like I needed to make a new character to get through each quest line, in skyrim, I make a new character every time I finish every single questline back to back.

 

But, maybe I was just spoiled by morrowind, where it was impossible to do every quest line on the same character, and even all the ones you could do took almost 300 to complete with minimal side tracking.

 

And I would really like to have been able to be named high king myself. First time playing through I was a stormcloak, and I imagined myself betraying ulfric to claim skyrim as my own after completing the main quests. I mean, the way I felt, I had single handedly saved this land from destruction in several ways, I DESERVED to rule it. :whistling:

[Lachdonin]

Just saying - Akatosh and Lorkhan are brothers, not the same deity, and Lorhkan was killed by Akatosh a long long long long long time ago. Morrowind tells a pretty good bit of that story, and what it doesn't tell can be discovered by looking up stories on the heart of Lorkhan.

 

One of the few meta-statements we have indicates otherwise. Kirkbride has said, point of fact, that Lorkhan and Akatosh, in absolute terms, are the same being. As with all divine entities, mortals view them through different lenses, but the brothers myth is just the mortal mind failing to understand the true complexity of Akatosh and Lorkhan. At best, mortals could view them as a 2 headed dragon, the heads constantly fighting amongst eachother, but even that is lost in the mythic stores discribing them/him/it as seperate beings.

[ArtMurder]

Just saying - Akatosh and Lorkhan are brothers, not the same deity, and Lorhkan was killed by Akatosh a long long long long long time ago. Morrowind tells a pretty good bit of that story, and what it doesn't tell can be discovered by looking up stories on the heart of Lorkhan.

 

One of the few meta-statements we have indicates otherwise. Kirkbride has said, point of fact, that Lorkhan and Akatosh, in absolute terms, are the same being. As with all divine entities, mortals view them through different lenses, but the brothers myth is just the mortal mind failing to understand the true complexity of Akatosh and Lorkhan. At best, mortals could view them as a 2 headed dragon, the heads constantly fighting amongst eachother, but even that is lost in the mythic stores discribing them/him/it as seperate beings.

The simple fact the Lorkhan's heart physically existed on nirn was destroyed by the naravarine (Spellcheck) makes me think they are at least separate beings in some sense, it's possible they WERE one being, and split apart from one another at some point. The general idea of them being "The same being" could also simply mean they are twins, and may not be meant to be taken literally.

 

it could be possible that Lorkhan and Akatosh USE to be one much more 'mighty' divine, that split into two before the begging of time or something. The way I see the two of them though, I simply can't make logical sense of the great deal of story and lore put into their back and forth if they are suddenly magically the same being.

 

The story of Lorkhan's heart was always one of my favorite TES stories, and akatosh and lorkhan always brought to mind two giant dragons tangled together, not necessarily 'two headed' but still bound as one, and when Lorkhan broke free from Akatosh, it... displeased him. And we should all know what happened next.

 

I really don't think anyone, probably even on the TES team could say for sure(well at least not without a staff meeting). I think it was left intentionally vague though.

[Lachdonin]

The simple fact the Lorkhan's heart physically existed on nirn was destroyed by the naravarine (Spellcheck) makes me think they are at least separate beings in some sense, it's possible they WERE one being, and split apart from one another at some point. The general idea of them being "The same being" could also simply mean they are twins, and may not be meant to be taken literally.

 

it could be possible that Lorkhan and Akatosh USE to be one much more 'mighty' divine, that split into two before the begging of time or something. The way I see the two of them though, I simply can't make logical sense of the great deal of story and lore put into their back and forth if they are suddenly magically the same being. .

 

This is something that needs to be considered, though. The statement (the link to which i know Sajuukkar has hidden away somewhere) states explicitly that it is intended to be illogical. It reinforces the inherent un-reality of the TES universe and the logical contradiction which leads to CHIM.

 

As with almost all things in The Elder Scrolls, however, it has layers. On the base level, Lorkhan and Akatosh are seperate beings, fighting against eachother. To the infinately more learned, they are two halves of the same same coin, cut asunder and unable to reconcile their own individuality with the whole of the other. To those on the verge of realising the truth of the universe, however, they are still the same god, just the same as all things are one in the same and individuality is an illusion.

[BCbrad]

Ho, so your saying that as long as talking to someone is needed to start the quest even if the dialog isn't started by you it doesn't count as being started "just by walking past two NPC in conversation"? Even tho walking past them is what triggers the dialogue that starts the quest? Fine then.

 

1. Dawnguard is added to your journal if you walk past a guard and he says "Heard they're reforming the Dawnguard. Vampire hunters or something, in the old fort near Riften. Might consider joining up myself."

2. Surgery is added to your journal if you walk past a guard and he says "People say there's someone in Riften that can... change your face. Make you look completely different. Do you believe that?"

 

I believe there's more but I have yet to do all the quests and don't fell like looking up every quest in the game to check. So yes quests CAN be started just by walking past an NPC thats talking.

I believe this is the same for Calcelmo and a Dwarven artifact. I obtaiined a Dwarven ingot and the courier gives you the letter. Similarly, the invitation handed to you for the museum in Dawnstar. Granted, I may choose to ignore these, but it would be great if there was some consequance. IRL, I may choose to blow the stop sign, and maybe nothing will happen. Or perhaps I may get busted the cops, or perhaps I hit another car or a pedestrian. Since, I play Skyrim for entertainment and not just some virtual space to roam around, I think it could be greatly improved. And yes, I do think my character should be praised and recognized. For example, I am a lvl100 blacksmith, why am I not giving out lessons or why yes faithful guard I am an amazing alchemist *poof* here is some mead.

[sajuukkhar9000]

The simple fact the Lorkhan's heart physically existed on nirn was destroyed by the naravarine (Spellcheck) makes me think they are at least separate beings in some sense, it's possible they WERE one being, and split apart from one another at some point. The general idea of them being "The same being" could also simply mean they are twins, and may not be meant to be taken literally.

 

it could be possible that Lorkhan and Akatosh USE to be one much more 'mighty' divine, that split into two before the begging of time or something. The way I see the two of them though, I simply can't make logical sense of the great deal of story and lore put into their back and forth if they are suddenly magically the same being.

 

The story of Lorkhan's heart was always one of my favorite TES stories, and akatosh and lorkhan always brought to mind two giant dragons tangled together, not necessarily 'two headed' but still bound as one, and when Lorkhan broke free from Akatosh, it... displeased him. And we should all know what happened next.

 

I really don't think anyone, probably even on the TES team could say for sure(well at least not without a staff meeting). I think it was left intentionally vague though.

Well first off, all the gods are dead, they have been since the creation of Mundus

 

Secondly, the heart of Lorkhan was NOT destroyed by the Nerevarine, it was only freed form its enchantments, at which point it whisked itself away to parts unknown.

 

Thirdly.

http://www.imperial-library.info/ForumArchives/AmuletAmulet.html

You guessed it. The Arena is a collection of pseudo-imagos' date=' all the way down to the core. Lorkhan is Akatosh, the Dragon God of Time is the Missing God of Change.

 

Tamriel is an impossible place, built on impossible precepts. It's, frankly, a magic ball of sentient schizophrenia.

 

These are why the echoes in every corner of every myth. These are why the ease of men to immortals and immortals into frozen egos.

 

It is pure magic, thought up by the nagging itch called "if", which necessitated a "then", which in turn made everything scared that it would go away forever.

 

It is a baby universe with doom already marked on its head, because it cannot really exist, it has no real mother, and it doesn't understand how to get out, or why it might, or if it should because the rest of the void is a horrible thought filled with nothing.[/quote']

[suger88]

@sajuukkhar9000 No I'm 100% right.

To start take up arms all you need to do is come in rang of the fight with the giant and after the battle Aela will actively seek you out. Do you get the point? SHE COMES TO YOU and starts dialogue you do NOT GO TO HERE

To start Innocence Lost all you need to do is walk past Idesa Sadri and Grimvar Cruel-Sea and over hear them and the quest is added to your journal even if you never talked to anyone about it.

To start the forsworn conspiracy all you need to do is go to the market the murder happens and Eltrys will come up and give you a note starting the quest even if you never talk to the guards.

So in the end there are in fact quests in Skyrim that are added to your journal just because you walked past two NPCs talking or walked into the wrong place and didn't run away.

 

Also the programmers being lazy is not a good resin for quests and guild chains to be completely liner. What HeyYou meant when he said "I find it amusing that you think this "unrealistic", even though it has already been done for Oblivion......" was that in Oblivion you could actually get suspended or in the chase of the Arena, Fighters guild and Dark Brotherhood permanently kicked out. So yes you could in fact leave most of the guilds permanently at any time you really wanted.

 

I'm wasting my time aren't I?

 

Dear sajuukkhar9000... God, stop, just stop. Quests do in fact just pop up and you know it. Just admit it, and stop taking this debate so damn personal. You seem to take it way too personal every time someone says something negative about this game, and I just can’t understand why. A lot of what they’re saying is 100 percent true, and I believe even Bethesda would have agreed on some parts of it.

 

The way you "debate" now does not at all create a healthy and sensible discussion, if you ask me. Though you make a lot of good and valid points, your arrogance has no limits. Sure you CAN (theoretically) avoid the companion thingy, but the fact that you literally have to run like Usain Bolt to get away from it is just silly. And even if you tell her that it sounds like a “waste of time”, the quest will appear in your journal. The first time you go to Markarth, a person will be killed and that dude will come over and hand you his note, saying you lost it. Sure, you can choose to neglect it thus never really read it, but you cannot drop it. Hence, you cannot avoid having this quest hover around forever and ever and ever and ever. That, sir, is what I find weird. I want to say “NO”, not just “not do it” in the matter of actions. That doesn’t make it feel like I have a choice, it’s more like “well, I guess you can choose not to do it, but we’ll still expect you to sometime in the future. Take your time, we'll wait.”

Edited January 27, 2013 by suger88

[Lachdonin]

I've missed out on most of this conversation, imcluding only the occational tidbit in the moment rather than contributing to the overal discussion, but i think a few things should be cleared up.

 

First, Skyrim does NOT have a journal. It has a quest log. The two are radically different. A quest log is as much part of your character as the start menu is. Which is to say, in TES games, both literally exist, but they are not part of the cognitive reasoning of your character, and exist in a form of meta-state above and beyond conventional existance. They ARE the Elder Scroll, recording events even if your character cares nothing about them. Eltris speaking to you and giving you the note is an event which happens, thus recoreded in the questlog regardless of whether your character chooses to make note of it in an arbitray journal. Admitedly, the 'Quest Item' system is absurd (how many times did i forget where i stored Wraithguard in Morrowind?) but that doesn't change the nature of the quest log.

 

Second, it's generally polite to quote the person you are disputing, rather than someone else disputing them.

 

Third, Skyrim is not perfect. No one has ever claimed that. Some things tend to infuriate me. Riften and the start of the Theives Guild, for instance. There are always ways to improve, like some simplified rendition of the faction-rep system from Daggerfall. The thrice damned compass system is like leading a toddler by the hand. The magic is an embarassment (though at the same time rather characterful for a province populated by people who shun magic). But because there is no Journal system in Skyrim, and i mean AT ALL, claiming that the 'just don't do it' option is character breaking is absurd. People tell me to do things all the time, like get a freaking drivers lisence. The fact that they happened is something i cannot deny, but that doesn't mean i have some arbitrary, OCD need to go do them.

[HeyYou]

Erm, on my menu, it says specifically "Journal"......

 

Even an option to mark a quest as 'abandoned', or, "I am not going to do this" to get it out of the active quest log would have been nice.....