You’re just a an unimportant piece of some game *Contains major spoile

[HeyYou]

Just out of idle curiosity, have you played any of the Fallout games? Particularly 1,2 or New Vegas?

[Lachdonin]

Just out of idle curiosity, have you played any of the Fallout games? Particularly 1,2 or New Vegas?

 

Ironically, none of which were done by Bethesda... Which of course probably nips any point you were trying to make in the bud...

[sajuukkhar9000]

Just out of idle curiosity, have you played any of the Fallout games? Particularly 1,2 or New Vegas?

Yes, I own, and have played, every Fallout game, from 1 to New Vegas, even that abysmal Fallout:BoS game. Not Fallout Tactics BoS, but Fallout:BoS.

 

Ironically, none of which were done by Bethesda... Which of course probably nips any point you were trying to make in the bud...

Actually, he is most likely trying to pull the "Interplay/Black Isle/Obsidian did choices/consequences in Fallout 1/2/New Vegas better" card.

 

Despite the fact that all consequences for your character's actions actually take place in a post-game cutscene, and not the game itself, and are thus entirely meaningless, because they are, as stated earlier, not in the game itself, and despite the fact that what few consequences of your actions that make it into the game itself, dont exist as anything more then what Skyrim does, ex. NPC dies/gets replaced/vanishes.

 

The two biggest actions you can actually commit in New Vegas, that affects the game's actual world, are

1. Killing all the NCR at HELIOs, causing them to be replaced by the same number of generic Legion soldiers.

2. Killing the Legion at Nelson, which causes 4 NCR solider to move in their place.

Skyrim does that 10 times over when replacing all the guards in 5 towns, and an equal number of forts, over the course of the civil war storyline.

 

The only real difference between Fallout and Skyrim in terms of choice/consequence is that Skyrim doesn't show you some cutscene at the end of the game to repeat the logical outcomes of your actions that anyone who actually payed attention to what was happening in the game would know was going to happen. But some people just NEED their actions validated, and repeated back to them, by someone of authority, aka the Developer, before they feel content.

Edited January 16, 2013 by sajuukkhar9000

[AnimeOtaku102]

1. False, because other forms of media, such as books, movies, and TV shows, are linear, and only have one path, you can either watch/read it, or not. Where as in Skyrim, doing a quest or not still allows you to play the game. Not reading a book, or watching a TV show, just means you are doing nothing with that form of media, whereas Skyrim lets you adventure off into countless caves, ruins, and cities at your leisure. You can still play Skyrim while ignoring all the quests, you cannot still read a book when not reading it.

Alright, fair enough, I was being too broad with that statement. That being said, let me use this analogy to explain why I disagree with your opinion: say Skyrim is a library and the quests are the books. The library doesn't force me to read all or any of the books, but this doesn't change the fact that the books are linear. I'm complaining the books are linear, you appear to be arguing the library is not linear because I am free to ignore the books. By your own logic if I choose to ignore a certain book, that's not choosing to do something with said book, that's simply doing nothing with that book.

 

I have a choice of picking which quests to do in Skyrim, but I don't have a choice in what to do in those quests. Skyrim isn't railroaded, but its quests are railroaded.

 

2. No, I was not referring to the game as a whole, I was referring to quests, none of them, outside of the Helgen opening, are railroaded onto you, becuase you can choose not to do them, and despite not doing them, the game still continues.

"Railroaded onto you" is an important distinction here. I'm arguing that if you choose to do a certain quest, you often have only one way to do said quest regardless of what kind of character you're playing.

 

But here is the thing, ever since Morrowind came out, the series has been branded NOT as a RPG, but as an action-adventure, open-world, RPG. Ever since the game that defined TES as something other then just another D&D fantasy RPG came out, aka Morrowind, the series has NEVER been market as a "many choices" game, it has always been marketed as a "explore a world/hiking sim" game.

If I look at elderscrolls.com/skyrim and flip through the Features list on the bottom, open-world exploration certainly is one of the features, but there's also:

 

Live another life, in another world

"Play any type of character you can imagine, and do whatever you want; the legendary freedom of choice, storytelling, and adventure of The Elder Scrolls comes to life like never before."

 

I wouldn't argue they've never marketed Skyrim as a "many choices" game. If you interpret that feature differently than I do, then so be it. We should just agree to disagree.

 

Also, the Dark Brotherhood is a guild of assassins who kill ANYONE, and everyone, they are hired to. Asking for a "I dont kill anyone who doesn't deserve it" play-style is contradictory to the entire stated purpose of the guild itself. Which is a no-morals, kill anyone we are asked to as long as they have the coin, type assassin guild. I dont play a racing game that says its about racing high performance sports cars and then complain that I cant race a monster truck, because the game was never designed for that.

 

You are asking for choices that logically shouldn't exist in the context of not only specific guilds, but the game world itself.

I apologize for not being clear, but when I say I want a play a character that only kills people who "deserve it", I mean people who actually deserve to have a contract put on their head. A law-abiding thane who constantly interferes with criminal activities but is too well-protected to simply be shanked by a thug "deserves" a Brotherhood contract, an overzealous soldier who butchers anyone who isn't flying his colors but is too skilled for grieving families to deal with themselves also "deserves" a contract. Targets that a contract killer can look at and go "Oh, yeah, they brought that upon themselves. They totally deserved it" (or a bloodthirsty maniac can go "Reason? Who cares about that? I got to kill someone and got paid for it!").

 

Crazed beggars living by themselves in the outskirts of a tiny village, paranoid lumberjacks living by themselves in a camp, and friendly meat vendors who (supposedly) regularly wander outside town by themselves don't "deserve" a Brotherhood contract. In fact, they don't even make any sense given a) every gossiping tavern owner and housewife knows about a Dark Sacrament being performed before it reaches Astrid's Brotherhood's ears and b) an entire raging civil war filled with atrocities, bad blood, and opportunists that screams "target rich environment" that everyone apparently ignores.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Anime_Otaku102

[Lachdonin]

In regards to the Dark Brotherhood. They don't concern themselves with who deserves a mark on their head. Someone does the Black Sacrement, they kill said person. End of discussion. The issue arrises from the fact that no sane person would do the Black Sacrement. It takes a special kind of desperate psychopath to just preform the ritual. Anyone who puts out a contact to the Dark Brotherhood tends to be extremely disturbed in the first place, which is why you can expect erratic contracts which don't seem to make much in the way of sense. Astrid also probably picks up word of the contracts through the rumour mill, since she has gone without a Listener since... well... forever. As such, it makes sense that the rumour mill would know before her.

 

Still, Bethesda did indeed drop the ball in terms of the whole 'Do anything you want, any way you want' advertising. Fact is, it's just not doable with todays technology. Even Bioware, the industry proclaimed 'Masters' of choice, have only ever been able to offer an A, B or C choice system. The number of times i've played Mass Effect and thought "The hell? I could difuse this situation without having to fire a shot" or "Well, those are both stupid ass choices".

 

The simple fact is, the "live another life" idea is a pipedream, and while Bethesda was nieve to use it as a slogan, people were even more nieve if they actually thought it was possible.

[AnimeOtaku102]

[...]

 

The simple fact is, the "live another life" idea is a pipedream, and while Bethesda was nieve to use it as a slogan, people were even more nieve if they actually thought it was possible.

True enough, I'm not asking for that to be honored to the letter, but it's not difficult to script alternate solutions to individual quests to create that illusion of choice - it's simply time consuming (also resource consuming to include additional spoken lines). Obviously things like "go to X and kill bandit Y" quests don't really deserve that kind of attention, but certainly a little more love can be given to quests that help define the type of character one plays.

[Lachdonin]

True enough, I'm not asking for that to be honored to the letter, but it's not difficult to script alternate solutions to individual quests to create that illusion of choice - it's simply time consuming (also resource consuming to include additional spoken lines). Obviously things like "go to X and kill bandit Y" quests don't really deserve that kind of attention, but certainly a little more love can be given to quests that help define the type of character one plays.

 

Indeed. I for one can forgive the lack of options for the sheer volume of quests, though i would admitedly like some more quality with my quantity.

[huntsman2310]

Star Wars the Old Republic nailed what the OP wants in my opinion.

 

In that, no matter what class you are, plots from the other classes are there in the background and characters cross over at a few points.

 

I agree, it would have been nice to see interaction between the Companions and the College of Winterhold. Like say, for Mage characters who skip along straight to Winterhold, during the Saarthal dig they bump into Farkas and Valgas (That's his name, right?), who were hired as extra muscle by Tolfdir.

 

And maybe one of the quests after this could be Archmage Aren sending you off after a thief who stole a crucial element of that big magic ball thingy. And when you track them down, who is it? Karliah.

 

I. Would. Kill. For this level of interaction. What they have already is good enough for me, but it can definitely improve.

[bjeet]

Well I think it would have been real nice if there was a big coronation for the new High King/Queen of Skyrim.....soldiers in shiny armour, chicks in fine clothes, flowers, mead, sweet rolls etc. etc. :rolleyes:

Whiterun and Windhelm should have been reconstructed. They could've made a series of quests for that.....the Dragon Born has enough Septims to buy half the Empire so I makes me angry when I have to put up with two dilapidated towns. :wallbash:

I found the leveling system pretty good. I have 100 skill in destruction but no perks so I can't do much damage but I have 100 skill in two-handed and a lot of perks and do a hell of a lot of damage. :thumbsup:

Killing half-wits and beggars for the Dark Brotherhood seems pretty pathetic to me but that is my personal opinion. Who the hell would want that mad guy at Ivarstead dead? :yucky:

I must have killed atleast one dragon (usually much more) at pretty much every town and village in Skyrim and as dragons are a big deal (even for the Nords) I don't think its too much to expect a few statues, songs and free drinks. :blush:

[Switchfeathers]

I agree 100% with this thread.

 

I love Skyrim, but my biggest, biggest gripe has always been just this: It feels soulless. No matter what you f***ing do, the game world doesn't change one iota.

 

Even in Oblivion, at the end there was a dirty great dragon statue standing where a temple used to be and there were less demons charging around. It wasn't much, but it was something!

 

 

 

 

What I want to see? Most of all?

 

A new DLC: "Storys of Beyond" or something. A big change DLC that alters the game world based on what you accomplish. Maybe some new mission lines for the factions, a new High King, that sort of deal.

 

The missing second half of the damn story, basically.