Why does Bethesda hate elves?

[Sarus31]

I personally like the fact the elves are different from the human races, for me it makes them a more interesting bunch of races. For example the Altmer for some unfathomanable reason remind

me of aliens, with their tall slender build and pointy features. The Dunmer look monstrous, even more so than the Orcs do in my opinion, with their long ears and glowering expressions they make for a scary looking character. And finally the Bosmer. I admit i've never liked the Bosmer in Morrowind or in Oblivion. However i like their appearance in Skyrim, they sort of remind me of animals, especially when you play with eye, nose, mouth and brow sliders and give them warpaint and wild beard and hair styles, which sort of gives them a disturbing primal animal-like savagery too them, quite fitting considering a lot of them are cannibalistic back in Valenwood.

 

But i belive peoples interpretations of elves are different, depending on ones personal beleif, culture etc.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Sarus31

[billyro]

I like the uniqueness of the elves, but the execution is terrible. The dunmer look disgusting in Skyrim compared to Morrowind, what with the completely disproportioned heads (their heads are so skinny... do they even have room for brains?) And the shallow cheeks, pronounced cheekbones and chins (with no option for anything otherwise) ruins them.

[EvelynnShadowalker]

They are special, but like billryo said, it is executed pretty badly, especially in Skyrim. What is up with their cheeks? I mean really? I'm forced to mod or make my own races of elf variety to just have my lovely lady look a little sexier.

 

Bethesda, please. If anything, go back to the days of Morrowind elves.

[SoulofChrysamere]

The problem with arguing the concept of looks is that everyone's perception of what each race should look like is going to differ, however slightly that difference may be. Perhaps you don't find Skyrim's Dunmer (Dark Elves) to be attractive, but someone else might. Perhaps you don't particularly find Morrowind's Bosmer (Wood Elves) appealing, but another person may. Perhaps you believe that elves should generally be prettier than men. Perhaps you believe men should be prettier than elves. Perhaps you'd like the beast races such as the Khajiiti and Argonians to be more attractive, or maybe you'd like to have them appear even more beastly, not only in facial features but stature as well.

 

Personally, more than anything, I would like to see more variance in how the various species of Khajiit and Argonians stand and move. Not much is known about the different Argonian species, but the in-game book "Mixed Unit Tactics" details several different species of Khajiit. Perhaps the Obmes species, which is supposedly quite humanlike, should have a more humanoid skeleton. The same thing applies to elves. One person might desire his Bosmer to walk around hunched, nearly moving on all fours as an animal as per their overall wild lifestyle (much like Skyrim's Falmer) - even the ones emigrated from nor not born in Valenwood. Another person might want her Bosmer to stand erect, appear groomed, and in her eyes, attractive.

 

Injecting yourself into the continent of Tamriel for a moment, this can be observed firsthand. Not every single elf you will meet will be drop-dead gorgeous, dashingly handsome, cute as a button, or what have you - you will find a great many of them unattractive in your view. Conversely, even though the Orcs are supposed to be beastly and savage in appearance, you will find some Orc people who are easier to face than others - maybe you might even find some, dare I say it, good-looking. Perhaps some of the species of Argonians living down in Bravil and Leyawiin would catch your eye with how their scales glitter in the sunlight or moonlight - not necessarily sexually appealing, but a beautiful gleam nonetheless.

 

Long story short, there will always be people who will agree with Bethesda's interpretation of elves and those who will oppose it - some vehemently so. I personally have no problem with anything they've done to their elves, but I'm sure plenty of people will heartily disagree.

 

At the end of the discussion and the voicing of opinions, one fact remains. The Elder Scrolls series is just a game, and you are free to view the races as you see fit. Mod in beautified elves or Orcs if you wish. Mod in hideous men if you wish. Tolkien doesn't see them like you. Bethesda's developers don't see them like you. Your fellow Nexus users don't see them like you. Your next-door neighbor doesn't see them like you. For those desiring a mixture of pretty, average, and ugly people, there appears to be three options. One, open up the construction set and adjust each NPC to your satisfaction. Two, wait for someone else to release a mod revamping each NPC's appearance. Three, use your imagination. I prefer the third option. I know it's painful to hear it, but mods aren't going to fix every single, solitary, miniscule irk you have with a certain game. Sooner or later, you'll have to let your imagination fill in the gaps or just live with the holes.

[Maharg67]

I would like to see more types of elves, some being more like Tolkien elves. It would be interesting to see more hybrid peoples such as elf-humans or elf-orcs in the games. I wonder what an elf-goblin would look like.

 

It seems that Mer are often too dark in nature and the games could do with some more enlightened, friendlier kinds.

[eltucu]

Hm. I just mentioned something related in the chat a few days ago.

 

Tolkien elves are just... too good? I mean, they're DESIGNED to be better at pretty much everything, better warriors, better looks, better physique, better lifespan, better morals, etc. I find kinda eerie the constant hints of their superiority over other races. Its like at every point that a human/dwarf/hobbit does something, an elf does the same thing, but better. Except walking into Mordor of course.

 

Bethesda wen't exactly the opposite road. They made the elfish race's ancestors a bunch of crazy xenophobic bastards, and the modern elves a bunch of not so crazy but still pretty much xenophobic bastards. And I like it. I wouldn't have it other way.

[Sarus31]

Well said eltucu.

[TRoaches]

Fantasy and sci-fi often use "race" as a literary vehicle to address real life cultural political clashes. I'm sure you could find dozens of academic papers on what Tolkien was really talking about, and who those races really represent. Same for The Wizard of Oz or Star Trek. Sometimes the correlation plays on blatant racial stereotypes (see: the Trade Federation and Watto in Star Wars). Here's what I see in the Skyrim lore if I try to read between the literary lines:

 

Empire = Greece, Persia, Rome: the old and eternal empire that collapsed under its own weight, corruption, and blowback from conquest

 

Dominion = Britain, France, Germany, etc: The empire that replaced the old one, claimed to be a huge improvement, and probably was to some extent, but eventually degraded into a clone of the previous empire and begins making all of the same arrogant mistakes

 

Khajit and Argonians = Asian, African, and South American cultures that were looted and enslaved at various times by the above mentioned empires, who then install a puppet government to maintain an illusion of local autonomy

 

Nords = Europeans who settled in "new worlds" such as the Americas and Australia. Generally speaking, they were less than nice to the natives, either enslaving them or eliminating them via some form of genocide. The Stormcloaks are violent and single-minded revolutionaries, such as those who overthrew their governments by force in the US and France, necessarily surrendering much of their moral high-ground in the process.

 

Bretons = Fairly obvious reference to the English, with the Foresworn being the English xenophobes. I live in the states, but English friends of mine have described a general fear and unspoken dislike for immigrants that exists in the UK. Metaphorically, the anti-immigrant crowd in UK are the "Native" Foresworn Bretons who have been driven to madness by all of these foreigners living on their island. This would also apply to current US social politics, but the US is the rambunctious runaway cultural child of England so a reference to English culture would probably be inherited by US culture.

 

This is what I see when I look at the TES races, because I'm a politics and history junky and I project some of that on to any art that I view, consciously or unconsciously. If a person who has no interest in politics or history looks at the same thing they will see none of this. Yet another person, who DOES have an interest in history and politics, may see similar correlations with RL but disagree with my breakdown of what it means because they come from a different culture, and hence a different perspective. For example, an unwavering English or American patriot would probably take issue with my above synopsis of their country's history or culture. I would not be surprised if Europeans are openly regarded as hideously ugly people in certain parts of the world that lived under a European boot heel for much of their recent history. Many Chinese people probably think the Japanese are physicall ugly, because the events of WW2 are still fresh in the collective memory.

 

The fact that the TES lore is ambiguous enough for us to wonder what it means is, in my opinion, an indicator of how well it is constructed. There are no obvious good or bad guys in the story, just like in real history, and the player is allowed to choose who to support and who to hate. Where one person sees a Nazi-like oppressor another sees the one true hope for order and stability. Where you see ugly elves who act like oppresive and insensitive jerks another person would see the most advanced society in Tamriel struggling to provide culture to mentally-backwards savages who can't even cast simple spells. Call it the Altmer's Burden.

 

Quick note: I enjoy reading history and politics but wouldn't claim expertise knowledge in either. I cede that the above characterizations of various political histories are completely unfair and biased and lacking 99% of the relevant information and context surrounding them. Please consider this if I have offended your patriotic sensibilities.

Edited April 6, 2013 by TRoaches