Is the voilence attributed to the decline of the white male?

[kvnchrist]

I was deep in a discussion about violence using guns and a person posted this very interesting link on there . It was completely ignored by those more interested in bickering about gun ownership than dealing with the reason for the violence and I was wondering what you guys think about this. Shouldn't progress be enjoyed by everybody in society? Please don't turn this into another fiasco about guns. Please discuss the issue behind the rise of violent behavior and how society can confront and hopefully eliminate it as much as possible. Thank you!

 

 

 

link fixed. sorry.

 

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/guns-and-the-decline-of-the-young-man/?src=me&ref=general

[HeyYou]

Not sure if it is just me, but, the link just takes me to a blank white page....

 

I don't think it is JUST the white male that is in decline, nor do I think that is the root cause of it all. I see it more as a symptom of a larger ill.... the lack of personal responsibility that is becoming ingrained in our society. Apparently, no one is responsible for their own actions anymore. There is always some 'underlying cause' that is beyond the control of the person exhibiting the undesirable behavior. Personally, I don't particularly care WHY someone committed X crime, the mere fact that they DID should be more than enough reason for the punishment to fit the crime......

[kvnchrist]

Sorry I fixed the link. For some reason it doesn't like the [ur] coding here. Thank you.l

[sukeban]

I think that there are two issues being addressed in this question, and I think that they are related--but discreet.

 

First would be the very real decline of the white male, or , if you will, the white working class in general. This class of people used to be the preeminent voting and demographic bloc of the United States, yet are increasingly being replaced by other ethnicities and demographics and are increasingly adrift in an economy that no longer really wants or needs them.

 

Fast forward through the decades and you see an ever-eroding economic situation for working class whites. I would posit that our education system has failed the white working class--that it hasn't adequately prepared them for the jobs of today (let alone tomorrow), that it has instead dumped them off to fight amongst themselves for the meager scraps that pass for an unskilled worker's wage. But to a guy who has lost his well-paying job at a machine shop or lumber yard only to wind up stocking shelves for 6.50/hr at Staples or who is unemployed... rage is a pretty understandable (if highly unconstructive) response. The white working class continues its drift from middle class to lower class and, having tasted the middle class lifestyle potentially for several generations, it is collectively unhappy about this--far more unhappy than, say, a recent immigrant who has only ever known poverty. Layer on top of this the growing diversity of this country and the baggage of religion and culture, and you can see how the white working class may believe that "their" country (and its economy) is working for seemingly "everyone else" but them.

 

Boiled down though, it's far from a difficult concept to grasp: that economic decline facilitates anger--the stuff social upheaval has been built upon for centuries (if not for all of history!).

 

So you have rage emanating from one (still very large) segment of the nation's people, and, through accident of history, these folks are also precisely those who are predisposed to have large quantities of weapons (settlers/frontier mentality) at their disposal. This, to me, is where these two issues intersect, as simply being a white man does not, through some secret principle of biology, make one a stone-cold killer by birthright; rather, you have to have anger and a weapon and white men DO happen to have both of these things in abundance. But not all angry white men with guns actually go out and use them on anything other than deer, so you also obviously need the element of political zealotry/desperation/mental instability/alcohol/drugs/whatever to act as the final catalyst for a violent action. To that end, white guys are perhaps an easier dope to rope, as they have have backwards ideas of "manhood" standing in their way of seeking mental health help, are emasculated due to the economy's preference for female labor, and have insane far-right zealots bombarding them with vicious propaganda via many potential media streams. All of that conspires to paint a grim picture, indeed.

 

TLDR: the changing economy has crushed the white working class and has left millions within that class economically marginalized and angry. In addition, myriad sociological factors and a cultural bias toward gun-ownership probably do make white males the most dangerous (to society at-large) demographic in the country.

Edited February 9, 2013 by sukeban

[HeyYou]

You have some good points there. Expanding on that some.... It doesn't help that our government is conspiring against the average white male. Maybe not directly, or even intentionally, but, they are doing so none the less. Affirmative action was a good point here. In the interests of 'ethnic diversity' they came up with rules that the workforce of a given company needs to be representative of the population demographics as well.... This was used by a fair few people to scream DISCRIMINATION! when they didn't get some job they applied for..... even though the person that was hired was better qualified than they were. It got to the point where the minorities were being hired instead of better qualified applicants, in the interest of avoiding lawsuits. This carries into our education system as well. Race is indeed a major factor for consideration of admission to universities. U of M recently went thru a major lawsuit on their admissions practices, they used a 'points' system, and simply being of Asian descent would give you a serious advantage over EVERY other race.

 

Basically, the government, in the interests of making things "fair", seriously tilted the scales in favor of anyone that WASN'T white.

 

Combine that little tidbit, running over the course of a couple decades, with dramatically flawed economic ideas..... (free trade being right up there on the list) which led to the severe loss/outsourcing of jobs, and you have a society that is seeing its standard of living decline at a dizzying rate, with no real hope for things getting better in the future. Sure, unemployment is supposedly going down, but, given how the government calculates those numbers, they don't reflect the actual reality on the ground. They also do not reflect the fact that average income for the middle class has also significantly decreased. The good-paying manufacturing jobs are a thing of the past, and they are being replaced with low-paying jobs in the services sector, or retail. Given that "a" job, is better than No job..... folks take what they can get, giving the illusion that 'things are getting better'..... for the top 5% of the population, yes, I suppose they are, for the other 95% though, they are barely holding their own, or, more often than not, losing ground in their accustomed lifestyle. I can see how that would annoy folks.

 

We are becoming a stratified society. The haves, and the have nots. Never a good recipe for a stable society.

[Ghogiel]

 

 

Basically, the government, in the interests of making things "fair", seriously tilted the scales in favor of anyone that WASN'T white.

 

Kinda like what just happened with civil unions and opposite sex couples here. I think you actually have to be same sex to be able to do it. imo non gay couples should be able to do it too.

 

Lets make some equal rights stuff, but forget about the equal rights stuff. durr. Happens all over the shop.

[kvnchrist]

 

 

Basically, the government, in the interests of making things "fair", seriously tilted the scales in favor of anyone that WASN'T white.

 

Kinda like what just happened with civil unions and opposite sex couples here. I think you actually have to be same sex to be able to do it. imo non gay couples should be able to do it too.

 

Lets make some equal rights stuff, but forget about the equal rights stuff. durr. Happens all over the shop.

 

 

What's needed is equal opportunity to advance according to individual desires and skills. The thing about the government is that they don't correct a problem, they overwhelm a problem, which causes more problems down the road to fix.

[Sync182]

Basically, the government, in the interests of making things "fair", seriously tilted the scales in favor of anyone that WASN'T white.

 

Kinda like what just happened with civil unions and opposite sex couples here. I think you actually have to be same sex to be able to do it. imo non gay couples should be able to do it too.

 

Lets make some equal rights stuff, but forget about the equal rights stuff. durr. Happens all over the shop.

 

That's a bit of the "Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others" argument. Which, being a white male, happen to agree with. It's easier to get most things if you aren't a white male; apparently, being "normal" is...a handicap.

[colourwheel]

Basically, the government, in the interests of making things "fair", seriously tilted the scales in favor of anyone that WASN'T white.

 

Kinda like what just happened with civil unions and opposite sex couples here. I think you actually have to be same sex to be able to do it. imo non gay couples should be able to do it too.

 

Lets make some equal rights stuff, but forget about the equal rights stuff. durr. Happens all over the shop.

 

That's a bit of the "Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others" argument. Which, being a white male, happen to agree with. It's easier to get most things if you aren't a white male; apparently, being "normal" is...a handicap.

 

I would have to disagree here on a side note here... I don't really think the reality is about equality at all. It's actually easier to get most things in life if you know the right people. I find this true in my experience knowing that it's more so who you know in life than what you know... but also how you know who....

 

I am all for equal rights and feel everyone should be treated equally... but sadly no matter the amount of legislative laws passed all people will still never be completely equal or treated as so until "maybe" one day the world population becomes one common racial creed in a millenia or so....

Edited February 11, 2013 by colourwheel

[kvnchrist]

Having equal rights is a good thing but I think the more important thing in this matter is equal opportunities. Programs like Affirmative action and the like was not structured to bring people rights, but to correct the perceived discrepancies in the workplace as far as White male and everyone else. The problem is that you can't burden young white males because of the past sins of a culture they had no hand in building. Suddenly their were agendas and quotas, instead of raw talent. I'm not saying that only the white males had raw talent, that would be absurd, but allowing a person who's grades are worse than yours to step in front of you is patently unfair and personally I think is against the equal protection lause in the constitution. While, like many Democratic legislation are well intended by poorly administered.

 

Instead of correcting anything, all it really did was create a whole new generation of victims. I think this is what this article is all about