why is conspiracy such a widespread problem ?

[HeyYou]

Oh, by the Eight ( or Nine? ) No! We don't want to go down that rabbit hole. :smile:

 

Tangentially it does however bring up a point. Much of what is considered "conspiracy theory" is based on our current world view. Take for example the once widely held belief that the earth was the centre of the solar system, a view rigorously defended and proselytised by the Catholic Church. There was this one fellow you may have heard of called Galileo, who had this heretical "conspiracy theory" that this may not be the case.

True. Some 'truths' that were once widely accepted, were later proven false by forward thinking individuals, or new discoveries in science. But, we still have the flat-earthers..... Guess some conspiracies are more resilient than others. :D

[Striker879]

One of the most difficult (or perhaps uncommon may be more accurate) things to do is to consider views/information that don't conform/support your previously held views/beliefs without predjudice. It is far easier to discount something that doesn't support your views/beliefs than it is to ask yourself the question "Could this be true" and then look into the matter more deeply.

 

Perhaps a lot depends on which end of the telescope you use to see your place in the universe ... the end that makes what you point it towards look larger or the end that makes those same things look smaller.

[Perraine]

I myself perhaps wouldn't even go so far as to say that some beliefs are proven "false", just perhaps misleading? or maybe more "nuanced" than they first appear to be? Take the Earth's place in the solar system for instance. Technically, the Earth does exert a gravitational force on the Sun, (although it is minuscule compared to say Jupiter) So in a very minute and subtle way, the Sun does "orbit" the Earth, or at least move in response to the Earth's position.

 

The personal decision to simply "go with the flow" is indeed quite seductive, and it sometimes takes a lot of effort to fight that impulse, and you sometimes have to wonder "should I bother?". In every day life, in some circumstances, probably not, but if you work for NASA and are trying to calculate an orbit or trajectory for an intra-solar space craft, you damn well BETTER question the Earth's relationship to the Sun.

 

Einstein for instance wasn't instantly believed in 1905, in fact he had to fight to "prove" his outlandish "Theory". The consensus at that time was that Newtonian Physics was all that was required, and there was no need to look any deeper, except Einstein couldn't let it go, and couldn't shake the feeling that something was "broken" with the Newtonian model, Although he certainly wasn't the only one, it seemed to irritate him the most. Just try and imagine the world we'd live in today, if he'd stopped fighting, dropped his silly "conspiracy theory" about Newtonian Physics, and just gone with the "consensus".

 

It's what makes that horrifying article the NYT posted so disturbing. A "teacher" (and I use the term loosely) Claiming that her students lives were much easier, and that they got the "right" answer much quicker, when they didn't bother looking too deeply. Just trust the "consensus" narrative, and move on, it'll all be fine really.

 

I might even agree (partially) if the consensus could be trusted unambiguously, but too many times we've seen that "truth" and "fact" are NOT the same thing.

[xrayy]

examples how conspriracy is currently handled within rep party:

 

a case of a how conspiracy of a rep party member works - discovered by media

 

a case how to show a clear attidude

 

 

 

just for better understanding - does anyone posting here not agree with the following ?

 

"With respect to where we are as a party ... we are the party of Lincoln. We are not the party of QAnon or anti-Semitism or Holocaust deniers or white supremacy or conspiracy theories. That's not who we are" Liz Cheney, Rep Senator

[Perraine]

Well, your first link is all but useless because it comes from the disgustingly partisan left wing mouthpiece CNN. But laying that aside, Green is a "firebrand" for sure, and some of her rantings are downright ludicrous, I personally despise ANYONE who calls for or approves of violence against another human being, however she does make some salient points in regards to the behaviour of certain democrats and their supporters.

 

As for Cheney, she's what's known in political circles as a "RINO" and realistically shouldn't even be in the republican party in it's current form. As for her quote, I'm afraid she is doing a disservice to Lincoln making that claim. While I agree with the second part of her statement that the Republican Party is not the party of "QAnon or anti-Semitism or Holocaust deniers or white supremacy or conspiracy theories." It certainly is NOT the party of Lincoln.

 

Not to say Lincoln himself was a saint, in fact he and Trump have a lot in common, although Lincoln was far more a "statesman" than Trump could ever be.

 

It's why I believe that the 2 party system in America is flawed. I believe there needs to be a 3rd party in America. A home for "conservative" or moderate politicians who have strayed too far from the fascist totalitarian left or the narcissistic right and have ended up in the DMZ at the centre.

[xrayy]

@perraine: respect for your open answer while disrediting yourself as open minded with your opinion about the first link.

seems to me you should read this first. it does not fit to your comment to the link. in case wikipedia is also too far left just tell me which media is not ? qanon media ? white supremacist media ? majorie taylor greene or other conspiracy supporting media ?

 

you tell me what you do not accept or what is in you humble opinion a not acceptable information (even if the sources are linked and evidence is obviously shown and taylor greene even answered). ignoring facts is a well known conspiracy tactic, not more. you may impress conspiracy supporters with that, not me.

much more interesting is what your sources are. why is cnn plain paritzan for you and why is it so relevant for you if the content is a proven fact and even taylor green even obviously answered already ? and what is not clear about this information? please show me your sources instead of your phrases and guesses. thank you!

[Perraine]

Do you really want me to provide links to ALL of the lies, obfuscations and misleading claims of CNN? If you refuse to even admit that CNN, MSNBC and their ilk are biased and partisan, then there is no point going further, or engaging in a "debate" as you are quite obviously unwilling to see even basic facts.

 

I read the links you provide, but unlike you, I actually read their sources (when they provide them) and strangely 99.9% of the time they turn out to be spurious, unfounded, undocumented, say the exact opposite of the narrative, or they "circle back" (sorry couldn't resist) on themselves (or my favourite = "Anonymous sources" )

 

On the rare occasions where proof is provided of ACTUAL wrongdoing, I will happily call it out, such as in the case with Greene. But if you read the whole article, you will see that she makes some salient points. For instance the eminently meme-able AOC accused a current sitting senator and the ENTIRE GOP of attempted murder! Should she not be castigated for that outrageous lie? (Do I need to provide a link for that FACT) Or the many celebrities and politicians who have openly called for, (or even offered to do themselves) the assassination of a sitting president. Do you also deny that FACT?

 

I provide nothing more than my opinion here, because this is an informal forum on a game modding website.

[xrayy]

why do you ask meaningless, nonsensical questions not regarding the topic instead of answering simple topic related questions ?

is it my fault why you seem to be unable to debate about taylor greene as a qanon and other conspiracy supporter she obviously is ?

i had to ask you a second time and that was not my fault. so blame yourself for asking you a second time to the first link.

 

no media is without lies and failures - that's what i say and i stand for. everybody is self responsible to find out what information is reliable and what not before spreading an opinion. so make your job and I make my job!

your special problem with all media which is obviously not far right or conspiracy supporting is your problem. and your answer shows that your tunnel view is more pronounced than i thought.

the best way in this case to respect each others opinion is to ignore each other. i do not share your tunnel view of (far)left and (far)right.

you are not willing or able to talk within the intended content of this debate but just about - or in your own self defined "why we need conspiracy and conspiracy supporters" debate. this is not what i intended. so i will do my part. thank you up to this point at least to try. you gave me all answers i needed. i don't want to be part in a parallel debate within my debate with you, especially if i see what you obviously stand for. thank you for your understanding.

 

For all others as a reminder:

read topic title again and watch my first post. should be not too complicated.

if you do not want to contribute to this debate but you like more to discuss how to support conspiracy or how be part of a conspiracy or why conspiracy is a good thing it would be nice to open a new debate with this title and to move along.

[Perraine]

I'm sorry, but if you are going to cast aspersions on my character and/or opinions, then I am going to answer, regardless of whether you wish it or not. You are more than welcome to ask the moderators to close the discussion if you wish. As the OP, this is your right, and the staff will oblige. Otherwise I'll continue to post my opinions as long as I wish.

 

As to your accusations, I merely reponded to a links YOU provided, and though I don't trust the source because it is undeniably, and unarguably partisan, I thoroughly read through the articles and posted my opinions.

You were the one who asked further questions of me, completely irrelevant to the topic, to which I replied.

 

I really cannot follow your mental gymnastics and double think sometimes. Without malice or insult intended, do you have a reading or comprehension issue, such as translation into English from your native language or such? Because you don't seem to read and understand replies, but instead make sweeping statements and make accusations instead.

 

...

And please, stop posting or referring to 'QAnon" as if that's some vast edifice. I have NEVER read anything they have written, and in fact didn't even know who they were, or that such a thing existed until YOU started posting about them. From what I've seen, they are fools, or trolls (or both) and I share no values with them. They seem to be some sort of "boogey man" of the left, that very few people on the right actually reads or cares about.

[xrayy]

thank you for a least distancing from qanon conspiracy. i have seen members even still supporting this and also the debunked vote election fraud - still continuously spreaded without any evidence by trump.

 

it is better for you and me that you are from now on on my ignore list. so feel free to post more of your content if you think the world needs this kind of messages or it helps you to feel better. to read your posts felt like getting no useful, unbiased or new information at all in 99% of your posts but more like a confrontation with not reflected spread of opinions and questions mostly not related to the topic but always in somehow in favor of supremacy and conspiracy or politicians who clearly support that. so i hope you respect my decision as i respect you to post what you want.

 

thank you for reminding me that i can close this topic. i will do if time has come. it is more important to show others how a debate can develop in a somehow disturbing way while that is not (only) a result of your contributions. this debate is a good example how a debate can develop in a not topic related direction, depending on the quality of the contributions.

it shows who the people are including their intentions and attitude and what is obviously on their mind posting here mostly off topic and conspiracy and supremacy supporting content. i respect that and it is even somehow entertaining but also disturbing. it seems to be a growing number of people in our community who think this way. the intention was to find out why.