npcs ither not using guns or randomly swapping to fists

[ScrubaluficusReturns]

having a problem where some npcs ither switch to using fists after briefly using there guns or just ignoring there guns and using fists.

 

this is my load order:

 

"0000","+","DLC: Wasteland Workshop",""

"0001","+","DLC: Vault-Tec Workshop",""

"0002","+","DLC: Nuka-World",""

"0003","+","DLC: Far Harbor",""

"0004","+","DLC: Contraptions Workshop",""

"0005","+","DLC: Automatron",""

"0006","+","Weapons of Fate (Ballistics Overhaul)","1.2.1.0"

"0007","+","Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch","d2021.4.11.0"

"0008","+","Armor and Weapon Keywords Community Resource (AWKCR)","8.6.0.0"

"0009","+","Blink Grenades V 1.6","d2021.4.11.0"

"0010","+","No Limits Jetpack","d2021.4.11.0"

"0011","+","CROSS_Cybernetics106c01","d2021.4.11.0"

"0012","+","FO4 Seasons - Summer 3.5 - All-in-One BA2 - reuploaded","d2021.4.11.0"

"0013","+","FO4 Seasons Fallen Leaves Replacer - Summer","d2021.4.11.0"

"0014","+","FO4 Seasons - Planter FIX - Wasteland Workshop Version","d2021.4.11.0"

"0015","+","FO4 Seasons - NukaWorld Grass Patch","d2021.4.11.0"

"0016","+","Bullet Counted Reload - v.1.05b","d2021.4.11.0"

"0017","+","Fallsouls - Unpaused Game Menus","d2021.4.11.0"

"0018","+","Mod Configuration Menu 1.39","d2021.4.11.0"

"0019","+","InstitutePowerArmor","d2021.4.12.0"

"0020","+","Enclave X-02 Power Armor 0.401","d2021.4.12.0"

"0021","+","T51c Power Armor","d2021.4.12.0"

"0022","+","T 65 Power Armor","d2021.4.12.0"

"0023","+","Hellfire X-03 Power Armor 0.126","d2021.4.12.0"

"0024","+","Excavator Power Armor","d2021.4.12.0"

"0025","+","Power Armor to the People","1.2.0.0"

"0026","+","AS Prototype R-74 Synth Helmet","1.5.0.0"

"0027","+","CROSS_Jetpack v.92","d2021.4.12.0"

"0028","+","PiP-Boy 2000","0.3.0.0"

"0029","+","Sleeve Fix","d2021.4.12.0"

"0030","+","Live Dismemberment","d2021.4.12.0"

"0031","+","CROSS_Blades","d2021.4.12.0"

"0032","+","AllowWorkbenchDuringCombat_withAutomatron","d2021.4.12.0"

"0033","+","Nail Polish","1.1.0.0"

"0034","+","Accelerator","d2021.4.13.0"

"0035","+","Plasma Cannon 8 Shot Version","d2021.4.12.0"

"0036","+","Rheinmetall EG-7 Energiegewehr","d2021.4.13.0"

"0037","+","FN P90","1.4.0.0"

"0038","+","Modern Weapon Replacer - Projectile Rocket Launcher - FOMOD Installer","1.3.0.0"

"0039","+","AQUILA ENG","d2021.4.11.0"

"0040","+","Projectile","d2021.4.11.0"

"0041","+","PVoFS","d2021.4.13.0"

"0042","+","Oni cute asian face parts","d2021.4.13.0"

"0043","+","Right-Handed Hunting Rifle","1.8.0.0"

"0044","+","Right-handed Lever Action Replacer","d2021.4.13.0"

"0045","+","Nuka-World AK Replacer","d2021.4.13.0"

"0046","+","WD_SMG_V4_Replacer","d2021.4.13.0"

"0047","+","Full Dialogue Interface","Beta12"

"0048","+","DavesMods - In Game ESP Explorer Maintenance","d2021.4.14.0"

"0049","+","Pipe 'B' Gone","d2021.4.14.0"

"0050","+","Start Me Up - Full Dialogue Prompts - version 6.1","d2021.4.14.0"

 

anyone able to see the problem?

Edited April 15, 2021 by ScrubaluficusReturns

[HeyYou]

"0016","+","Bullet Counted Reload - v.1.05b","d2021.4.11.0"

 

Does that one affect NPC's as well? Does it force NPC's to use ammo? After you kill 'em, do the NPC's that resorted to fists have any ammo for their preferred weapon?

[aurreth]

As HeyYou said, this is usually an ammo problem. Make sure your companion has exactly one round for their default weapon. Cait's default weapon is a shot gun, make sure she has one shotgun shell. That will lock in the companion "infinite ammo" script.

 

The other cause is frankly a flaw in the way video games and players think of modern combat. For some reason I can't fathom there is this strange idea that melee is common in the modern era and people equip and train for it.

 

There is a reason soldiers don't carry swords anymore. Guns.

 

It takes years of training to master a sword, but you can produce a competent rifleman in a matter of weeks. Contrary to popular belief modern soldiers spend very little time on hand to hand combat, knife combat, or using bayonets. All of those are weapons of last resort. Soldiers carry knives for utility purposes, not for fighting if there is any way to avoid that. "Fix bayonets" is, loosely translated, "we are fixin' to die here, might as well try to take a few extra with us somehow", rather than an actual tactic.

 

A proper modern combat AI should default to guns, for every single actor. Your companion should never be trying to close distance into melee range, they should be looking for cover and shooting for as long as they have ammo. Out of ammo? Disengage. Melee combat is not a valid fighting style when your enemy can kill you from 300 meters. With the exception of games narrowly oriented on Special Forces it really needs to be a secondary mechanic instead of a valid primary one.

[ScrubaluficusReturns]

@aurreth.

 

not talking about companions I'm talking about enemy npcs. also next time try not to make a long paragraph that goes entirely off topic. Nobody wants to read it. Lastly melee is fine in fallout which just makes half your paragraph look like a whine (guns aren't supposed to be common). My problem is the fact that there not supposed to be using bear fists... its not in the files for this to happen meaning its a bug/mod related issue. hell it could even be engine level from things I've tried before that accidentally touched that (leveled list replacers). If your this hung up on melee weapons then go play S.T.A.L.K.E.R. where everyone is a professional marksman. Which also leads to another flaw in your statement, yes guns are as easy as point and shoot but without good accuracy training you might as well be shooting blanks half the time. only edge guns have on swords is range and even then a sword can be more useful than a gun at times (when you need to be very quiet). The Chinese military still uses swords and horses bet you didn't know that.

 

@ hey you https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/41178?tab=files

 

it just allows the far harbor lever action to reload according to the rounds that are already inside it. doesn't touch anything aside that.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

So I kind of half solved it I think. they now use there weapon's that there spawning with, vault 114 is fine now.

it was pipe be gone. i switched it with another replacer and it worked fine without any problem. But...

 

raiders have decided they want to play this game now (just the odd raider I suspect. I have to play more when I don't feel like throwing my computer in the trash and lighting it on fire). But they just don't spawn with guns and I left the moment I saw one after going to kill the death claw in concord. If I cycle him using disable/enable (using enable after waiting a sec out of console) he equips a gun but if I cycle him enough I can see he does not equip a gun all the time and often rolls with no weapon.

 

Updated load order:

#Mod_Priority,#Mod_Status,#Mod_Name

"0000","+","DLC: Wasteland Workshop"

"0001","+","DLC: Vault-Tec Workshop"

"0002","+","DLC: Nuka-World"

"0003","+","DLC: Far Harbor"

"0004","+","DLC: Contraptions Workshop"

"0005","+","DLC: Automatron"

"0006","+","Weapons of Fate (Ballistics Overhaul)"

"0007","+","Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch"

"0008","+","Armor and Weapon Keywords Community Resource (AWKCR)"

"0009","+","Blink Grenades V 1.6"

"0010","+","No Limits Jetpack"

"0011","+","CROSS_Cybernetics106c01"

"0012","+","FO4 Seasons - Summer 3.5 - All-in-One BA2 - reuploaded"

"0013","+","FO4 Seasons Fallen Leaves Replacer - Summer"

"0014","+","FO4 Seasons - Planter FIX - Wasteland Workshop Version"

"0015","-","FO4 Seasons - NukaWorld Grass Patch"

"0016","+","Bullet Counted Reload - v.1.05b"

"0017","+","Fallsouls - Unpaused Game Menus"

"0018","+","Mod Configuration Menu 1.39"

"0019","+","InstitutePowerArmor"

"0020","+","Enclave X-02 Power Armor 0.401"

"0021","+","T51c Power Armor"

"0022","+","T 65 Power Armor"

"0023","+","Hellfire X-03 Power Armor 0.126"

"0024","+","Excavator Power Armor"

"0025","+","Power Armor to the People"

"0026","+","AS Prototype R-74 Synth Helmet"

"0027","+","CROSS_Jetpack v.92"

"0028","+","Sleeve Fix"

"0029","+","Live Dismemberment"

"0030","+","CROSS_Blades"

"0031","+","AllowWorkbenchDuringCombat_withAutomatron"

"0032","+","Nail Polish"

"0033","+","Accelerator"

"0034","+","Plasma Cannon 8 Shot Version"

"0035","+","Rheinmetall EG-7 Energiegewehr"

"0036","+","FN P90"

"0037","+","AQUILA ENG"

"0038","+","Projectile"

"0039","+","PVoFS"

"0040","+","Oni cute asian face parts"

"0041","+","Right-Handed Hunting Rifle"

"0042","+","Right-handed Lever Action Replacer"

"0043","+","Nuka-World AK Replacer"

"0044","+","WD_SMG_V4_Replacer"

"0045","+","Full Dialogue Interface"

"0046","+","DavesMods - In Game ESP Explorer Maintenance"

"0047","+","Start Me Up - Full Dialogue Prompts - version 6.1"

"0048","+","See-Through-Scopes"

"0049","+","Full Dialogue Interface LOOKUP FAILED Fix"

"0050","+","Classic Holstered Weapons - v1.04c"

"0051","+","moregooder pipe weapon replacer"

"0052","+","PIP-Pad"

"0053","+","Pip-Boy Flashlight"

"0054","+","Longer Power Lines 3x"

"0055","+","Scrap Everything"

"0056","+","Place (Fallout4 1.10.163 - latest release)"

"0057","+","BCR- Lever Action Rifle"

"0058","+","BCR-HuntingShotgun"

"0059","+","BCR-RightHandedLeverActionReplacer"

"0060","+","Hunting Shotgun 2k"

"0061","+","MTs-255 Revolver Shotgun - 2K Textures"

"0062","+","Modern Weapon Replacer - Projectile Rocket Launcher - FOMOD Installer"

"0063","+","Modern Weapon Replacer - Hunting Shotgun - FOMOD Installer"

"0064","+","Modern Weapon Replacer - MTs-255 - FOMOD Installer"

Edited April 16, 2021 by ScrubaluficusReturns

[HeyYou]

I occasionally see raiders, and even gunners... spawn without a firearm, just melee weapons..... Maybe one in ten?

[ScrubaluficusReturns]

no melee weapons just fists.

 

melee weapons are normal fists are a bug symptom

Edited April 16, 2021 by ScrubaluficusReturns

[DanteRedfield]

I've noticed that when I cripple their arms they stop shooting and start running at me, don't know if they'd melee because they never get that close. I have a crippled limbs mod though and I don't know if it works like your live dismemberment

[ScrubaluficusReturns]

That's again normal and not possibly the case since crippled limbs get healed after the npc gets cycled and doesn't account for them having no weapons in inventory at all (with "inv" command)

 

i also stopped combat (with tcai and turn it off to test if he holds a gun without it active) on the second attempt which makes no room for him to get crippled.

 

 

could be that the mods bugged but its unlikely so we will just shove that in the back burner for later...

 

 

also figured out its a named raider "gristle" that's doing it (didn't notice the name before) and after checking the wiki it seems he uses all his weapons but for whatever reason sometimes spawns with non of the weapons that he's supposed to roll. Starting to think leveled lists got boned somehow even though I use mod organizer 2...

Edited April 17, 2021 by ScrubaluficusReturns

[ScrubaluficusReturns]

SOLVED

 

For some dumb reason that nobody could of possibly guessed... it was the energy weapon mods for some dumbass reason....

[HeyYou]

SOLVED

 

For some dumb reason that nobody could of possibly guessed... it was the energy weapon mods for some dumbass reason....

That's just odd..... Did they dink with the leveled lists? Or some other odd interaction?