Jump to content

Photo

A few tips from the focus group


  • Please log in to reply
79 replies to this topic

#11
OldMansBeard

OldMansBeard

    Resident poster

  • Supporter
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,877 posts

So, is there a folder where loose files are waiting to be deployed, where I can manually overwrite a loose file from one mod with a loose file from another mod so that I get what I want when I hit the 'Deploy' button?



#12
OldMansBeard

OldMansBeard

    Resident poster

  • Supporter
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,877 posts

 

...

 

Load order: Ah, I see. You can set a global priority (much like LOOT) which should put your esp always in the same place.

Ah, that's what I needed, thanks.



#13
Thallassa

Thallassa

    Beep Boop

  • Premium Member
  • 753 posts

The choice of which files are deployed is done at the time of deployment. Vortex decides what to put in the data folder based on what's in the mod folder and the order it's been given using dependencies.

 

If you don't want a particular file from a particular mod, you will need to manually change the file extension or delete the file in the mod folder. Here is where the "open in file manager" from my first post comes in handy :)



#14
OldMansBeard

OldMansBeard

    Resident poster

  • Supporter
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,877 posts

The choice of which files are deployed is done at the time of deployment. Vortex decides what to put in the data folder based on what's in the mod folder and the order it's been given using dependencies.

 

If you don't want a particular file from a particular mod, you will need to manually change the file extension or delete the file in the mod folder. Here is where the "open in file manager" from my first post comes in handy :smile:

Okay, got it, thanks. In an extreme case, it will be like manually installing mods, except into the mod folder instead of directly into the game's data folder, prior to deferred deployment. So it's do-able.

 

I'm just a bit worried about explaining that to my users. You see, I have a popular mod that contains an embedded version (3.3) of a particular SKSE plugin, and SKSE plugins have to be loose files. There's another popular mod (not by me) that has a similarly embedded copy of the same plugin but it's an older mod that is no longer under development and it contains an older version (3.2) of the plugin. Using both mods together is popular and indeed you get extra in-game goodies if you have both installed. But my mod doesn't work properly with V3.2 of the SKSE plugin, it has to be V3.3. So the loose file from my mod has to overwrite the loose file from the other mod, regardless of which order they are installed. If we were doing manual installs, I would simply tell my users they must install my mod after the other one, and re-install it last if necessary. I'm wondering, what corresponding instructions can I post for users of Vortex?


Edited by OldMansBeard, 31 January 2018 - 06:31 PM.


#15
ousnius

ousnius

    Resident poster

  • Premium Member
  • 9,794 posts

 

The choice of which files are deployed is done at the time of deployment. Vortex decides what to put in the data folder based on what's in the mod folder and the order it's been given using dependencies.

 

If you don't want a particular file from a particular mod, you will need to manually change the file extension or delete the file in the mod folder. Here is where the "open in file manager" from my first post comes in handy :smile:

Okay, got it, thanks. In an extreme case, it will be like manually installing mods, except into the mod folder instead of directly into the game's data folder, prior to deferred deployment. So it's do-able.

 

I'm just a bit worried about explaining that to my users. You see, I have a popular mod that contains an embedded version (3.3) of a particular SKSE plugin, and SKSE plugins have to be loose files. There's another popular mod (not by me) that has a similarly embedded copy of the same plugin but it's an older mod that is no longer under development and it contains an older version (3.2) of the plugin. Using both mods together is popular and indeed you get extra in-game goodies if you have both installed. But my mod doesn't work properly with V3.2 of the SKSE plugin, it has to be V3.3. So the loose file from my mod has to overwrite the loose file from the other mod, regardless of which order they are installed. If we were doing manual installs, I would simply tell my users they must install my mod after the other one, and re-install it last if necessary. I'm wondering, what corresponding instructions can I post for users of Vortex?

 

If the SKSE plugin has the same file name, Vortex will show a notification at the top right saying that "there are conflicting files".

 

The user has to click on the lightning icon of your mod in the mods tab, which will bring up the conflict resolution menu.

There, tell people to have your mod load after the other mod with the older plugin as seen in Thallassa's screenshots.



#16
kinggath

kinggath

    Resident poster

  • Premium Member
  • 3,598 posts
Is there somewhere to read about the logic behind eliminating the easy to use method of manual mod order? As others have said, this ends up being a pretty useful feature when testing during development.

#17
Tannin42

Tannin42

    Faithful poster

  • Staff
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,488 posts
Several reasons: - Manual mod ordering was massively abused by the majority of MO users to put mods into a visual order, so instead of solving file conflicts they turned it into a second "category" by grouping together similar mods. There is no point adding a feature when you know 90% of the community (at the very least) don't understand it. With vortex it will be easy to add a new column for visual ordering if people want that, but that is then completely distinct from mod ordering - This system clarifies that load ordering is a local thing, you don't have to specify an install order when two mods don't have a conflict, it's just pointless. But with manual ordering you implicitly order everything - The rule system solves more problems than just ordering. Dependencies can express required mods and incompatible mods. Eventually we will hopefully reach a point where when you install a mod, all it's dependencies can be downloaded installed automatically as well. - We can publish rules, similar to how loot has a public masterlist. Eventually we will be able to have a server hosting the rules based on compatibility tests by the community or mod authors and apply them automatically for new users. At that point you will only ever have to touch install order when you _know_ you want something changed, you don't have to look into every file conflict.

#18
OldMansBeard

OldMansBeard

    Resident poster

  • Supporter
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,877 posts

 

 

The choice of which files are deployed is done at the time of deployment. Vortex decides what to put in the data folder based on what's in the mod folder and the order it's been given using dependencies.

 

If you don't want a particular file from a particular mod, you will need to manually change the file extension or delete the file in the mod folder. Here is where the "open in file manager" from my first post comes in handy :smile:

Okay, got it, thanks. In an extreme case, it will be like manually installing mods, except into the mod folder instead of directly into the game's data folder, prior to deferred deployment. So it's do-able.

 

I'm just a bit worried about explaining that to my users. You see, I have a popular mod that contains an embedded version (3.3) of a particular SKSE plugin, and SKSE plugins have to be loose files. There's another popular mod (not by me) that has a similarly embedded copy of the same plugin but it's an older mod that is no longer under development and it contains an older version (3.2) of the plugin. Using both mods together is popular and indeed you get extra in-game goodies if you have both installed. But my mod doesn't work properly with V3.2 of the SKSE plugin, it has to be V3.3. So the loose file from my mod has to overwrite the loose file from the other mod, regardless of which order they are installed. If we were doing manual installs, I would simply tell my users they must install my mod after the other one, and re-install it last if necessary. I'm wondering, what corresponding instructions can I post for users of Vortex?

 

If the SKSE plugin has the same file name, Vortex will show a notification at the top right saying that "there are conflicting files".

 

The user has to click on the lightning icon of your mod in the mods tab, which will bring up the conflict resolution menu.

There, tell people to have your mod load after the other mod with the older plugin as seen in Thallassa's screenshots.

 

Yes, that seems to work, thanks.

 

Sorry for being 'a user' :D

 

I think my initial difficulty arose from there being two different meanings to 'load order' as it appears in Vortex-speak.

  • the order in which files are 'loaded' out of the mods folder to the game's data folder at deployment time
  • the order in which plugins are loaded into the game at run time

In Skyrim-type games, the deployment order matters for resolving conflicts between different mods that contain identically-named loose files (as in my example) whereas the game-time load order resolves conflicts between records within plugins and their associated bsa's. They aren't the same thing and calling them both 'load order' is going to cause confusion. (It confused me, anyway :confused: )

 

Is it too late to change the terminology to distinguish them?



#19
Thallassa

Thallassa

    Beep Boop

  • Premium Member
  • 753 posts

 


In Skyrim-type games, the deployment order matters for resolving conflicts between different mods that contain identically-named loose files (as in my example) whereas the game-time load order resolves conflicts between records within plugins and their associated bsa's. They aren't the same thing and calling them both 'load order' is going to cause confusion. (It confused me, anyway :confused: )

 

Is it too late to change the terminology to distinguish them?

 

 

I submitted feedback to call it "install order" on the mods panel and "load order" on the plugins panel, which is, as far as I'm concerned, standard in this community. Not sure what happened to that fragment of feedback :) Regardless I'll continue to use that terminology even if it doesn't quite match what the program is calling it (I'll have to remember to clarify whenever I get around to writing a guide...)

 

Actually at one point the "install order" of mods wasn't visible at all, I think. As tannin said you just set up the dependencies for which conflicts win, so the load order on the mods screen is meaningless for most mods. A "visual order" of mods (like manual ordering in MO) is still in the works afaik. It would be nice to have.



#20
HeavyDude

HeavyDude

    Old hand

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 524 posts

 

Several reasons: - Manual mod ordering was massively abused by the majority of MO users to put mods into a visual order, so instead of solving file conflicts they turned it into a second "category" by grouping together similar mods. There is no point adding a feature when you know 90% of the community (at the very least) don't understand it.

 

With vortex it will be easy to add a new column for visual ordering if people want that, but that is then completely distinct from mod ordering - This system clarifies that load ordering is a local thing, you don't have to specify an install order when two mods don't have a conflict, it's just pointless. But with manual ordering you implicitly order everything - The rule system solves more problems than just ordering. Dependencies can express required mods and incompatible mods.

 

Eventually we will hopefully reach a point where when you install a mod, all it's dependencies can be downloaded installed automatically as well. - We can publish rules, similar to how loot has a public masterlist. Eventually we will be able to have a server hosting the rules based on compatibility tests by the community or mod authors and apply them automatically for new users. At that point you will only ever have to touch install order when you _know_ you want something changed, you don't have to look into every file conflict.

 

That actually makes perfect sense. I admit I was one of those that sorted mods in MO by categories (I "grouped" them), though file conflicts took precedence. Best to be away with it I say if it causes more headaches than necessary.

 

I would like to have the option to hide individual files through the Vortex interface (like in MO) rather than delete/hide the files from their mod folders.

 

I'm not a tester but look forward to getting my grubby hands on it. Best of luck guys.






IPB skins by Skinbox
Page loaded in: 0.958 seconds