Balakirev

Too late? Skyrim's been out, what, a few days? Do you think the hundreds of people involved in modding Oblivion and the tens of thousands involved in playing plenty of those mods are just going to jump at Bethsoft's PR campaign and abandon a favorite game overnight? It doesn't happen like that. I haven't noticed a drop in traffic in the official modding forum, and there are still plenty of mod releases in progress. It's funny, but this is a copy of what happened when Oblivion first appeared. Some people would assume that Morrowind modding was going to stop overnight. In fact, it continued at just about the same level for 2-3 years, and is still quite active though on a reduced basis, today. I'd give the Oblivion modding community 2-3 years in turn at full strength--if Bethsoft's Skyrim modding tools are strong, and allow for fixing its worst issues, such as the UI. Remember, these are modders and mod players. Not the casual spend-a-ton-play-for-a-month-what's-the-next-greatest-game crowd. These are people who know what they like, invest in its development, and stick with it. We're not going anywhere. And I'm not about to stop working on my character merchant mod, either. ;)

Might also want to check out this article. Be sure to check the section on The Leveling Problem. It's worth noting as well that when Oblivion appeared, nearly a dozen different mods showed up during the first 6 months to deal with fixing leveling/scaling. It was perceived as a major issue in the game, and still is.

Yes, it did. And people remarked on the official forums about this--and were promptly shot down by the fanboy hordes who screamed that they were liars, trolls, and idiots. ;)

I completely agree. Between mods that fix problems in Oblivion and others that expand its potential, modded Oblivion has it all over vanilla Oblivion. This was almost verbatim asked about Morrowind, after Oblivion came out. People answered, not unreasonably, that all the sales lay with the new game, and that all Bethsoft's resources were naturally going to be spent there, too. As for mods, Bethsoft technically could claim ownership of them, but would get into a real PR minefield if they tried to do so. And paying for modders' efforts...? That's something they would never do. They've never acknowledged up front the work modders achieve except to use popular mod ideas in successive games, like user houses, or store and home hours with locked doors, modded into Morrowind, part of the base package in Oblivion. ...All of which is to say that I can't see Bethsoft spending money on a 5-year-old game, when they could put it instead in a new one. For them, as for anybody in the Gaming Industry, it's all about the bottom line, where the biggest return lies. Nice idea, though. And frankly, I'd wish they'd do this to Morrowind. ;)

You think he/she's a drama queen, just looking for attention? :D

Perhaps I've mentioned bugs because I've taken note of the official Bethsoft Skyrim forum on software and hardware-related problems, here, with more than 3500 topic entries already. Not all of these are specifically bugs, but quite a lot are, as you can discover for yourself by simply reading through a few pages of the forum. Which isn't to say that Skyrim is ridiculously buggy. But it's a big game, and all of Bethsoft's games are always loaded with bugs when they first appear. This can be confirmed by considering how many bugfixes are in each of the patch releases for Oblivion and Morrowind, for example--and then how many further bugs were unofficially caught by the players, who issued their own further patches. Literally thousands of issues, large and small, are always in need of repair. Expect plenty of future patches for Skyrim. It's what a conscientious company does when there are thousands of complaints.

I asked, but didn't see, whether you rebuilt your Bashed Patch after moving your ESPs around. It's probably a good idea to try that. Also, try removing Fearsome Magicka, just to take one variable out of the equation for the time being. And do run a clean save, when you test the results out.

You're right about that Conjuration ESP--my apologies. Try putting it after all your SM files, and see if that makes a difference. Also, did you try rebuilding your Bashed Patch before running the game again? What about saving and cells is that info is stored with saved games that has to be cleaned out in order to test new conditions, when you move around, remove or add mods. What's called a "clean save" is caused by moving to an indoor cell--that's to say, go to someplace, any place indoors, where the room you're in has to load. In other words, if you walk from one room to another and there's no game loading between rooms, you're still in the same cell. You want to change cells. That removes old info from the saved game. Then save the game. Exit completely. Reload from Windows. That last save you made is now a clean save.

Click the Mods tab. Right-click above your modlist and select List Mods. Then simply copy the list, here. Since you've added or removed any mods from the game, have you rebuilt your Bashed Patch? It needs to reflect current mod content, or that could be your reason for crashing. Also, under your Saves tab, does the saved game you're trying to load show up with a purple background for the checkmark?

I can't say I've ever had any problems using LAME and SM in tandem. Mostly they deal with different things, though Conjuration can cause them conflicts. Where conflicts occur, there are compatibility patches. For example, I load LAME first, so in order to keep LAME's shader and lightning bolt, I use patches LAME provides. Some people load SM first--and in that case, if you want to keep SM's summons, you'd load the "Conjuration for Supreme Magicka" ESP included with in the SM archive after LAME. Sometimes it is as simple as moving files around. Glad to hear that's all it required, plus a little INI tweaking. Enjoy. :)

I can't speak to OBMM, since I use Wrye Bash. It's easier to organize mods properly, make sure all parent mods are in place, etc. You might want to give it a try, and then run BOSS (Better Oblivion Sorting Software) to see how it rearranges your mods. Another thing to remember is that SM comes with its own INI file that lets you change a number of parameters. I know that some of these involve spell cost in magicka. Also, remember after you make a change like this to move to a new inner cell, save the game, and exit. Then and only then load that last save in order to test the mod changes.

MIght want to put it in a separate thread, instead of piggybacking it here, then. ;)

The requirements are high, it's buggy, there are features missing (spellmaking, a good inventory UI) that I really want, there's no extensive modding community yet and probably won't be for a year, and I've got heavily modded Morrowind and Oblivion setups that add tons of content in place. Why should I chuck out a good slab of cash for something I'm not going to play, when the money could go into household funds that are needed, or for holiday gifts, or for other purchases such as books?

Did you only play Oblivion over the last several years? If not, what leads you to believe you're only going to play Skyrim, and that you can't keep two characters alive and active in two separate games?

And a lot won't. :) Many of us are perfectly happy playing our heavily modded Morrowind and Oblivion characters. We'll consider Skyrim when the bugs are fixed, an expansion comes out, the price drops, and modders form a very active community that deals with its known issues and "features," such as a lack of magic scaling for the PC above level 50, the absence of spell making, and an inventory interface that was devised with console users in mind. As for Oblivion: I think there's a Gamespot strategy guide out there, and I know there are several up on GameFAQs. I'd also suggest checking out at least one or two basic mods, especially the Unofficial Oblivion Patch. Beyond that, just take a look at the top 100 rated mod downloads and maybe scan through the mod categories when you get a chance. This will give you a good feeling for what modders have done, so that when you feel ready, you'll know what you want to add to your Oblivion experience. A really unique player house? A companion with elaborate dialog who can make potions and fight alongside you? A store that lets you bet on snail races? There are some incredibly creative modders active for Oblivion. Definitely not your main focus now, but a good thing to keep in mind. I strongly recommend this First Time Players guide to get a feel for the game. Also, take it slow. While Oblivion is a lot more forgiving than Morrowind to new arrivals, the sheer size and variety of it all can be daunting. That article should help. Also, feel free to ask questions here when they arise--and they will. ;) Have fun!

More specifically, destruction magic. One of the more intelligent complaints I've seen frequently up in the official forums (don't go there; it's like watching a giant dogpile of fanboys baying at the moon) is that destructive magic doesn't scale for the PC. Melee and ranged attacks do, and the NPC magicuser's destructive spellcasting does, but the PC tops out around level 50 and spells don't improve after that. Given that all my characters involve magic use to some extent, this is a real killer to considering Skyrim. And judging from those the threads that mention this, some people have already back-drawered the game until this is dealt with, either by the devs or by modders.

I'm afraid that doesn't help. Many mods are displayed abbreviated in OBMM, and loading order is hard to determine. Do you have Wrye Bash? That lists everything in loading order, as well as pointing out mods lacking parents, mod versions, and some conflicts. It also offers tools to repair saved games, and has plenty of other functions (that aren't important right now).

Before you try the 50% rule--disabling 50% of your mods, seeing if that works, disabling 50% of what's left if it doesn't, enabling 50% of what you previously disabled if it does, etc--post your modlist in loading order.

Are you by any chance loading auto- and/or quicksaves? There are known bugs involving these. They should be avoided.

An excellent suggestion. Be sure to check the LGNPC webpage for the latest updates. I'd throw out a caution on this. I had characters fresh out of the character manager killed by MCA thieves and such, as soon as they emerged--not once, but repeatedly. These were roughly level 10, as well--as were the ones who popped up in Pelgiad, who were killed after first taking my PC out. If you do get this mod, consider one of the patches that takes out enemies and run with it for the first few levels, and be sure your character has an excellent weapon and good skill.

Pink/purple is the optimal color for game saves in Wrye Bash. Maybe you should post your entire mod list, in order. I don't see your Bashed Patch, for example. Have you tried recompiling it?

As many others have pointed out over time, the leveling system and scaling within the game are hopelessly broken: they took something great from Morrowind, decided it should be made a lot easier for console (everything levels when you do, and monsters regenerate) players, and instead came up with a mess. The solutions to this have been many, and often very creative, as witness the work of Oscuro, Francesco, etc. Basically, play whichever way works for you. Just remember that unless you concentrate on raising primary combat stats all the time, you'll eventually be overtaken by enemies who do just that. It's the way the game was made. There are ways around this--keeping a character to lower levels, or adding companions, or (as you've done) running at a lower level of difficulty. Nothing wrong with trying to find something that brings you enjoyment in a game. You're certainly doing nothing "wrong."

...especially since the mods we're seeing now are emphatically not the end of a great era. :) A bit of history: when Oblivion came out, there were threads just like yours that bewailed the end of Morrowind modding. Said modding continued just as strong for at least 3 years following Oblivion's release, and is still moving along at a reduced but powerful rate, with several major mods having been released in the last month and a host of minor ones. Personal note: I kept checking the Oblivion official mods forum following the game's release. It was literally almost a year before the first big quest mod appeared. The first 6 months of modding were largely concerned with offering alternatives to Bethsoft's bad mechanics choices, especially leveling and scaling. Modders didn't jump in to embrace the new game. They held off, despite the endless cream-in-their-pants reviews of fanboys who saw nothing but the PR hype the company had fed them. Modders aren't like casual or "RPG lite" players. They don't jump at the next release. They go for depth, they play one another's mods, and they stick with a game for a very, very long time--you'd expect that, wouldn't you, if they're going to put in dozens or hundreds of hours modding? Most modders aren't going to jump ship instantly for Skyrim, if Morrowind-to-Obliivion was anything to judge by--and it is. They are going to watch carefully to see if the game continues Bethsoft's trend to please younger players, and what's good and not so good, and whether the modding tools are worth it. Then they'll think about it some more, and go on releasing Oblivion mods. So don't worry about Oblivion suddenly losing its modders. Most of the ones I know, the ones whose work I admire or the ones I'm personally friendly with, are happily modding Oblivion (and in a few cases, Morrowind). Some are planning new major mods, and while I can't be more specific than that, I can only tell you that at least two major new quest systems for Oblivion, a great shop, and several smaller things are on the way. And that's just in the next 60 days, maybe less, and based on a few known quantitites. There's bound to be a lot more out there being worked on, I'm sure. Don't break out your handkerchief, just yet. :D

Not really. It's only a matter of people stating their opinions. And since debates are only of service when facts are presented that enlighten the landscape, this really doesn't begin to qualify. We've not convinced you, and you haven't convinced us. Which is as it should be, in matters such as these where each person's ideas are as good as another's. :)

I suggest checking out Morrowind for Oblivion players. That should help considerably. There's definitely more of a roleplaying feel about Morrowind, because lore is an essential aspect of the game, and not something that feels tacked on, as it does in Oblivion. And since quests don't hold your hand, you have to actually work to find an do things. It helps, too, that dungeons don't auto-refill with monsters, and that most (but not all) caves, dungeons, etc, have unique, non-scaled encounters. Just my opinion, mind you.