proconsu1

How many saves do you have in your My Documents\My Games\Fallout 3 folder?

Sounds like your installation of FOSE might not have been done correctly. It should have disabled Live. Have you tried running directly from the FOSE loader in your Fallout 3 directory?

That looks like an FOIP installation guide, not an FWE guide. And the plugins he is talking about that are integrated into the FOIP are MMM plugins, not DarnUI - Darn has no optional plugins. Basically about 90% of that video has no relation to your situation if you are just going to be using DarnUI and FWE and not any of those other mods he mentions (MMM, WMK, PB or EVE). Also, it looks like he is using an older version of FWE, because the current version does not have a full FOMOD scripted installer like the one he is using. There is a DarnUI fix for use with FWE like he mentions in passing, and you definitely want that. But almost nothing he talks about will affect you since you will have to do a mult-file FWE installation, unlike him, and you will not be installing most of the rest of the stuff he talks about.

Sounds like either a corrupt save or a bad spawn in that cell. Do you have an earlier save that you could test without a lot of a lost game time? Also, you need a merged patch. I recommend you get and use FO3edit to make one.

Yep, that's all good. Only use the contents checker if you suspect that there is a misbehaving bit from one your mods showing up where it shouldn't. For example, if you suddenly find that a junk dealer like Crazy Wolfgang is stocking Bozars and HK-11s, then the content checker might clean that up. Or if you see a can of Pork N Beans being labelled as a melee weapon, time for the content checker. As I understand it it's supposed to clean up any bleed-over where leveled lists get mishandled by a mod and start crossing categories and similar erroneous behavior. But it is definitely for fixing existing errors, not for general use. As for race records, that should not really be an issue with FO3 like it was with Oblivion, since there are not really that many races and as far as I know there are no multi-race cosmetic mods. So you were correct to leave that unchecked, too.

I notice that you are not using a merged patch. That and the FOIP issues prolly need addressing. And could you be a little more specific on the "mesh error" that is spawning.

Why necro a thread that has been dead for two years just to restate what has already been said by the previous three posters?

Hmm, that is too hot by a fair measure. Anything over about 60C is bad and likely to cause crashes/meltdowns. It also shortens the card's life by quite a bit to run that hot. If the case is clean, then the case itself is inadequate to the thermal challenge. For a stopgap you could leave one side of the case off and run a good room fan pointed right into the frellin' thing. For a permanent fix I'd hit Newegg.com and check out their high endorsement cases.

Heh. I was a navy puke once upon a time. Three-letter and four-letter abbreviations were practically their own language then. Need to call COMSUBPAC for a SITREP on the meeting with CINCLANTFLT and NCA? Well, then first you have to figure out what those 9 abbreviations meant - and yes that was 9 abbreviations, not 4. Here I thought I was taking it easy on you.... :pirate:

Designate a folder yourself when it asks you that question. If you have only one hard drive then the answer is simple: just tell it to install to c:\fallout 3 It will prolly respond that that folder doesn't exist and ask if you wanna create it; just say yes and then let 'er rip. As to that appcrash, there are a couple of things that bear checking: 1. Are you running any mods? If so, post your load order here. 2. Have you edited the file "Fallout.ini" in your \\My Documents\My Games\Fallout 3\ folder? If so, undo those changes or copy the file "default_fallout.ini" from your Fallout installation folder (the one that used to be in Program Files but is now c:\Fallout 3 - hint hint) to that documents fallout folder and then rename it to fallout.ini. 3. Update your video and sound drivers. 4. From the Fallout 3 launcher choose "Options" and make sure that you have not set it to use a resolution or other option that your hardware does not support (and that it didn't set itself that way, either, since it does make changes on its own the first time you launch it).

No prob. First I will list the general order of steps you should follow. Then I will answer that very specific issue with FWE. 1. Create a separate FOMOD for each and every downloaded archive of the mod you are going to install. 2. When all FOMODs for that mod are created, activate them in what appears to be the best order, i.e. main file(s) first, optional plugins next, patches last. 3. If a patch or plugin asks to overwrite one or more files from a main file, let it and don't worry about it. Hotfix files and other versions "patches" commonly replace files that were installed by the original or "main" files of that mod. If a FOMOD asks to overwrite a file that was installed from a completely different mod, make a note of it but still allow it, at least for now. If you later find a problem that seems related to that, then you will have that note reminding you that mod XYZ overwrote files from mod ABC, so maybe you should reverse the order and activate XYZ first this time and then activate ABC and let it do the overwriting. Here is an example: Mod 1 is FWE - mod 2 is EVE - and mod 3 is the FOIP compatibility patch for FWE-EVE. You install mod 1, and you get warnings about several files being overwritten during the install of the later packages of that mod, e.g. the "Part 2" and/or the "Hotfix" components overwriting files placed by "Part 1". As long as you activated in that order, part 1, part 2, hotfix, then don't worry about any overwrites; just approve them all. Next you install mod 2, EVE, and it gives you warnings about two files it wants to overwrite that were installed by FWE - two laserweapon files specifically. Since this is one mod overwriting a different mod, you make a note of it but still allow it to do the overwrites. Then you install mod 3, the FOIP compatibility patch that is designed to make EVE and FWE coexist peacefully. During this install you again get overwrite warnings, and about the same two laser weapon files, saying it wants to overwrite the versions placed there by EVE. Again allow it, and now you probably see why you allowed it. That third mod, meant to make the first two mods work together, was placing the correct versions of those files into your installation because it knew that an overwrite during the original install of those two mods might have put the wrong versions in there. Now let's say there was no compatibility patch for the two mods in question, and after allowing one of them to overwrite the other you find that one or both mods don't work right. Well, just go back to the package manager in FOMM and deactivate BOTH of those mods in their entirety. Then reactivate them, but in the reverse order this time so that the mod that was being overwritten the first time is the mod doing the overwriting the second time. FOMM will already have kept track of what was overwriting what, and it will have kept backup copies of all files that were overwritten and knows when and where to put them back during an uninstall. So don't worry that an overwrite is going to permanently break anything. Just back up and try a different order if the first run didn't work as expected. But always install the files of any particular mod in the correct order, main files, then plugins then patches - the readme files contained within the archives should tell you the order if you cannot figure it out. I hope that made sense, but just in case, here is another example to illustrate: 1. When installing multiple mods, for example FWE, EVE and WMK - you might vary the order in which you install whole mods if you have problems. For example you might try that order first, and then if it didn't work right you might switch to install EVE, FWE and the WMK. 2. But regardless of where in that order you installed FWE, you would ALWAYS activate "Part 1" first, "Part 2" second and the "Hotfix" third whenever you installed FWE. Edit: forgot to answer that specific deal about the hotfix - it does indeed overwrite stuff from the "main" files. That is why it is called a hotfix - because it is replacing broken and/or bugged files from the original installation archives with "fixed" versions, but is doing so "on the fly", i.e. without having to uninstall and reinstall the whole flippin' mod.

Re: VATS plugins - not a clue. I never use VATS so I never had a reason to find out one way or the other, even though I use that mod. I would presume that since the two plugins are for half-time and real time that the default without a plugin is more like one-fourth time...ish.

Was that 80C your CPU temp, GPU temp or the case ambient?

Dust bunnies. It's always about the frelling dust bunnies. Penguins, those evil little bastages - they sneak in when you aren't there and plant dust bunnies all over the inside of your computer case, making it hold in excess heat. They take particular delight in planting those frelling things inside the cooling vanes on your video card and in and under your CPU fan. Diabolical little <expletives deleted>. :pinch:

Okey dokey, you are getting bit by both the jargon beastie and the assumption bug. Modders always tend to think you already know their jargon, and they tend to assume that you are an experienced user of the same tools they use, hence jargon and assumptions tend to be the biggest hurdles to overcome in trying to read and follow the instructions they write for their mods. Sigh. OK, first the jargon: 1. Mod - a set of unofficial, after-market files that adds or changes the look and/or gameplay aspects of the game. FWE is a mod, EVE is a mod, Broken Steel is NOT a mod, since it is official content from Bethesda 2. Archive - a compressed file which contains other file(s) within it, e.g. a .zip, .rar or .7z file 3. Package - the FOMM term for a set of files along with the basic info that tells FOMM what they are and what to do with them - do not confuse this with the term "mod". A "mod" may consist of several "packages" and your example of FWE is a case in point. More on this in a minute 4. FOMOD - a compressed, FOMM-ified package. Basically this is the kind of file FOMM will save and use, and it will construct it from the files in the "package". So "package" and "FOMOD" are almost but not quite interchangeable terms in this context. A "package" is a set of files and information that form some part of a mod - a "FOMOD" is the compressed file FOMM creates to store that package 5. Patch - an additional file which is created using either FO3edit or Wyre Flash, and which is intended to help multiple mods cooperate with each other rather than conflict with each other and crash your game. If you only install one mod, then you can generally do just fine without a patch, or "merged patch" as we often say. But if you have more than one mod installed then you should prolly make a merged patch. OK, jargon dealt with, now the specific steps in FOMM: 1. Open the "Package Manager" just as you did before. 2. On the right hand side the first button should have a little arrow on its right edge. This is because it is a multi-function button. Click the arrow and you should see a list of five different options to choose from. Pick the one that says "Create FOMod". 3. Now a window will appear with four areas. The left hand panel is a list of the different types of info the thing wants from you before making the FOMOD; we'll come back to that. The right hand panel is a list of the files that are going to go into the FOMOD - you will be the one who puts things there, so we'll come back to that, too. The empty top bar is where you enter a filename for this FOMOD - coming back to this, as well. The middle panel is a listing of the contents of the archive you downloaded and selected for this FOMOD, for example FWE_Master_Release_6-0_-_Part_1-2671.7z. - that will be our first stop. 4. So, you need to select an "archive" for the FOMOD to be built from, in this case the "main" or "primary" or first file that you downloaded for that mod. In your case the file FWE_Master_Release_6-0_-_Part_1-2671.7z. To get that archive selected just click "Add Files..." and browse to wherever you stored that file when you downloaded it, then select it and click "Open". This will put that file into the middle panel, from where you will begin to tell FOMM what to do with it. 5. Now is a good time to select a name for the FOMOD in that top name bar. I recommend you include something in the name that will remind you how to handle this FOMOD. In your FWE example you have 3 different downloaded files - that means three different "packages" and hence three different FOMODs. You already put them in the correct order, by the way: Part 1, Part 2 and Hotfix. So when you make the FOMOD from the "Part 1" file, you might want to include a "1" at the end of the filename to remind you that this FOMOD comes first. And put a "2" at the end of the Part 2 FOMOD and a "3" at the end of the Hotfix FOMOD. This way when it comes time to activate these FOMODs you will immediately see the order in which they should be activated - 1, 2, 3 - bam, bam, bam. 6. Now that the middle panel and the name bar are out of the way, the right panel is the next stop. What FOMM wants you to do now is to drag and drop folders and/or files from the middle panel, aka the "archive", and drop them in the right panel, aka "the package". Whatever you put in that right panel is what FOMM will actually put into the FOMOD, and anything that doesn't end up in there will be left out. So to get back to your example, you see the archive file in that middle panel with a "+" sign next to it, so click on that "+" and it will expand to show you the folders and files inside that archive. You want to drag those folders and files from the middle panel and drop them in the right panel. There are a few gotcha that can crop up at this point, but they do not apply to this FWE file because the mod author did a fair job of setting up this archive to be ready for FOMM. If you run afoul of those gotchas with a different mod, ask then or PM me and I'll help you out with that. 7. So now that the files and folders have been dropped into the "package", aka the right panel, we need to deal with the information part of the package, which is the left hand panel. Some of the info there is stuff that FOMM needs, and some is stuff it merely wants but can do without. Now some of the better mod authors will include a special file within the archive that contains a set of instructions, aka a "script", which tells FOMM most or even all of this info for that left hand panel. Also, FOMM will not actually create the FOMOD until it has the info it needs and has given you a chance to skip on the info it merely wants. So go ahead and click "OK" in the lower right as if you were done. Now wait patiently - it will appear as if your computer has locked up. In fact, though, FOMM is just scanning all the files in that archive looking for the script, and then using the script to fill out as much of that info as it can on its own. When it has gone as far as it can go it will stop and put some yellow and/or red warning signs in that left hand panel to draw your attention to info it lacks that it wants and/or needs, respectively. Click over to each of those sections to see what remains. Fill out yellow marked areas if you feel like it, and take care of red-marked areas for sure. When they are all covered, click that same "OK" button a second time. If you have dealt with all the red marked things then the FOMOD will actually be created this time, and you will be returned to the Package Manager window where you will now see the new FOMOD added to the list of mods and ready to be activated. A few notes about the larger process here. First, don't activate a FOMOD until after you have created FOMODs for ALL of the pieces of that mod. In the case of FWE that means don't activate the Part 1 FOMOD until you have already created the FOMODs for Part 2 and the Hotfix and are ready to install the entire mod. Second, make FOMODs for each and every part of a mod, even if one of those parts is just single file that needs to go into some particular folder. By keeping to the system you make sure that you never accidentally forget to install such a file, nor do you forget to UNinstall it if you should decide to remove that mod at a later time - since you installed it from a FOMOD, FOMM will have kept track for you and you won't forget. Third and perhaps most important, in order to get maximum benefit of FOMMs tracking ability, install every single mod you play using FOMODs. Some mods will overwrite files from other mods, or from other components of themselves; that is normal and inevitable if you use large overhaul mods or use several smaller mods. But if you install everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING, from FOMODs, then FOMM will always keep track of which files were overwritten by what, and it will keep backups of those overwritten files so that it can put them back if needed. If you install everything from FOMODS, then there is always a way to back out gracefully if something you install creates a conflict. But if you install even one thing manually, then you can break FOMM's ability to do that, because you will have made changes to the game's file structure that FOMM had no way to track. Anyway, good luck, and if you need more help with this or need help with the merged patch bit, give another shout when you reach that point.

Doubtful, but the only thing lost by trying is a little bit of time. More useful might be to download and install the redistributable packages for .NET to see if you can force it back into compliance. And make sure you are getting the redistributable versions, not the "standalone" or patchfile versions. Edit: and I would get every version from 2 forward, i.e. 2.0 3.0 3.5 and 4.0. You will likely find the earliest ones already incorporated into your version of Windows or your Service Pack, but since I don't which you are on I say get 'em all and let the installer sort it out later.

If I am reading you right, you installed Python and Wrye just fine but now are trying to launch Python in order to run Wrye. If that is so, stop doing it that way - Python is just background code and should be ignored from now on. Just go to the Wrye installation folder and run this executable, which is cleverly disguised to not LOOK like an executable: "Wrye Bash Launcher.pyw" - with Python properly installed the file extension .pyw should have become an executable. As for creating a merged patch, lemme cut and paste the steps as I sent them to another friend recently. And forgive the fact that the instructions tell you things you already know and/or have already done. Like I said, they were originally written for somebody else who hadn't gotten as far as you have. And give special attention to step 6 below, cuz I suspect that may be where things are going off the rails for you - that was where I first went awry the first time I tried this. 1. Get and install both Wrye Python 03A and Wrye Flash, in that order. 2. Run the WryeFlash program: note that it's executable will look odd; the filename to run is "Wrye Bash Launcher.pyw" . It will open a screen that lists all your installed mods, with their names color coded, check marks by the active ones and so on. It will look similar to FOMM's load order screen except in color. I strongly recommend that you click on the column labeled "Load Order" to arrange your view based on this field. Otherwise things will list in a different order than what they will actually load in, and that can be very confusing. Note also that when you arrange based on load order you may see that some inactive mod components appear higher in the list than some active ones - this is normal, as they are listing in the order they would load in if they were all active. 3. BOSS - along the bottom of the WryeFlash window there is a row of small buttons on the left hand side. One of those is for BOSS. Click it to launch BOSS from within Wrye and have it sort your load order prior to making your patch. Note that this requires that you must already have downloaded and installed BOSS. 4. At the bottom of the now sorted load order you should see a file called "Bashed Patch, 0.esp". Right click on this file to open the context menu and click "Rebuild patch..." 5. It will almost certainly open another dialog window that lists some of your esps, says that they are mergeable, and asks if it is OK to deactivate them. Take note of which files it names and then click "Yes". 6. Now it will bring up a window with a bunch of options listed on the left side and an empty frame on the right. The second option listed on the left will be "Merge Patches". Select it and click to put a check in the checkbox next to it. You should now see a list in the right hand panel which names all those mods that were listed in step 5. Check the boxes next to all of them. 7. Click the button at the bottom of the window that says "Build Patch". A status window should appear to confirm that the patch was built successfully. You should also see "Bashed Patch, 0.esp" still at the bottom of your load order and now activated (if it wasn't already activated). 8. Now close Wrye, launch FOSE and test it out.

Here is some help getting started with using Flash to replace FOMM: WryeFlash - manual available here: Get and install both Wrye Python 03A and Wrye Flash, in that order. For installing with BAIN (the installer tab of Wrye) you just need to locate the folder where you told Wrye (when you installed it) you were putting your mod archives, and then the folder off of that called "Bash Installers". This is where you put the zipped up (or rar'ed or 7zipped, whatever) archive files that you downloaded from here at the Nexus or from wherever. BAIN can recognize their internal file structure most of the time and figure out what goes where without any help. Where it will run into trouble is mods that put an extra folder layer at the top that is not part of the normal \\Fallout 3\Data\...\ folder structure, such as body replacers that have multiple installation options bundled in a single archive. For these it is easiest and best to just extract them to a separate folder, isolate just the installation option you want and then zip up just those files, leaving out any folder layers that don't conform to Fallout 3's naming convention. Example: bodyreplacerxyz.rar contains three different replacement body types in folders with this kinda structure: \\pick_one_folder_only_and_extract_to_data_folder\ \body_type_a\meshes \body_type_b\meshes \body_type_c\meshes You can see that the first folder layer that conforms to FO3 naming is the sub-subfolder "meshes", so if you wanted to install type B bodies you would rezip just the "meshes" folder from that body type's folder, and then put that new archive into the Bash Installers folder. BAIN would scan it and immediately recognize that "meshes" is a subfolder of \\Fallout 3\Data\, and would therefore know how to handle that archive. Wrye also has another useful feature that FOMM lacks: the ability to selectively install mod components from within an archive. Say, for example, you are installing a big overhaul like FWE. It has 4 required esms, 1 required esp, 5 plugin esps for DLCs, and about a half dozen optional plugins, a couple of which are paired options where you are only supposed to run one or the other but not both. When you select that archive in Wrye's installer tab it is going to a show a list of all those esms and esps in a separate panel in the lower right portion of the window, with checkboxes next to each of them. You can just uncheck the ones you don't want to install right there and BAIN will leave them out when you click the "Install" option. But it will not lose track of them, so if you later find you want to add in one of those, then you just go back and select that same archive, put a checkbox back in that one component you had left out, and then this time click "Install missing". BAIN will then compare your selections now with the selections made when you installed that mod before and only extract and install those bits that it hadn't already installed. Conversely, if you find that one optional component you installed is jacking things up and you want it gone, then just go back and UNcheck it in the installer, and then click the option "Anneal" which tells BAIN to remove any already installed bits that don't match the current selections. Personally I love this ability, since it prevents accidental activation of unwanted or even incompatible mod components, makes certain they don't get bundled into a merged patch, and it also cuts down on clutter in my actual Fallout 3 installation folder tree. And that last bit cuts down on drive thrashing, since the game engine has a tendency to repeatedly scan every single esm, esp and bsa file it can find, without regard to whether they are active or not. There is one thing, however, which FOMM does that Wrye does not do: archive invalidation. Well, actually Wrye can do it, but its method is inferior. So you will want to download and use "Archive Invalidation Invalidated" if you aren't already using it. And then there is Wrye's superior (to FO3edit) merged patch capability....lemme know when yer ready for that little novella. :unsure:

Bright side, dude, bright side. Have you seen the recent posts from people getting hosed over by Windows updates screwing up their .NET frameworks, thereby killing FOMM? At least with Wrye running over Python you know you will never have that particular problem. Ummm....might I suggest a multitude of beer and a dartboard with a picture of Bill Gates on it in place of that last step there?

OK, blind = me. Nothing to see here; move along. :whistling: Wrye is by far the best way to make a merged patch and the most powerful tool for getting multiple mods to cooperate. So if your choice is to fix your modded stuff, then Wrye is your ticket. If yer just gonna cut yer losses and get outta Dodge...well...I would have a hard time blaming you. If you do decide to stick it out and want help getting started with Wrye, just lemme know. Edit: to match your ninja edit: for Python just get this one file here: Wrye Python 03a; and here is where you get Wyre Flash; lastly, here is the complete online manual for Wrye Bash, which is basically the identical program for Oblivion - just disregard the sections about save editing, since that was never ported from Bash to Flash. Edit#2: as for the multi-threaded audio crash, vanilla FO3 is more or less capable of multi-threading, but not completely optimized for it. When you add FOSE, and then add multiple overhaul mods with their multitudes of scripts, then "not completely optimized" can quickly turn into "not completely safe from extinction-level calamity". I have found that when I run heavily modded that I get the most stability from an almost completely vanilla ini file - the only edited line being the one that chooses the font for DarnUI.

Well, I never did get into WMK, so that is one big difference between my situation and yours. As for the problems, sometimes it was CTDs and sometimes it was freezes, but the common thread always seemed to be the initiation of combat where someone was using a laser weapon. Plasma weps didn't trigger it, nor did laser-equipped robots, but laser pistols and rifles did every time until I reversed FWE's and EVE's esms in the load order. The only reason I even figured it out at all was because I took a laser-focused character in order to put EVE through its paces and see some of the new death scenes it added. If I had been playing a slug-thrower I would prolly never have figured it out. But alas, that appears not to be at all like your situation... As for Wrye and FO3edit, it's kinda like the difference between Linux and Windows. Wrye is very powerful, very configurable and has a bit of a learning curve, and so it is therefore not for the computer illiterate, the easily intimidated or the casual user who doesn't wanna get that deep into things. FO3edit is far less powerful but very streamlined, highly automated; it does a few basic but important things in a more generalized, one-size-fits-all kinda way, but it does them with little to no input from the user, which makes it ideal for the casual user or the less technically adept. Wrye also has a very powerful installer, like FOMMs but again less automated and more user-configurable. I swear by Wrye, but if you look back through the other threads in which I have given advice, you will find many in which I strongly endorse FO3edit and others in which I tout Wrye instead. It is all based on my perception of the person I am trying to help, i.e. whether I think they have the skills, grit and interest in tackling Wrye's steeper learning curve. Last, recommendations: the only mods you don't use but which I highly recommend are DarnifiedUI and Fellout, in that order. Darnified is, to me, an absolute requirement, i.e. I won't even consider playing without it. Fellout I like because it fixes what has always been my biggest complaint with FO3, namely that sick greenish tint to all the global lighting. Vanilla FO3 appears to have been lit according to someone's impressions of what the world would look like 10 years after a nuclear war, not 200 years after it - Fellout fixes that.

If you have Automatic Updates turned on, then IE updates are going to be loading in addition to core OS updates. Not good. Those "fixes" actually tend to contain more regression bugs than actual fixes. That is why there are so many of them, because they are continually chasing down the regression bugs they introduced in recent "fix" packs. You could try rolling back any updates it installed in the past coupla weeks, but it may already be too late for that to fix it. Another thing you could try is to get the latest version of FOMM, which I believe is 13.21 if memory serves. You will find it here on the Nexus listed in the mod utilities for FO:NV, but it is actually designed to work with both FO3 and FO:NV. If it is built on a later version of the .NET framework (and I have no clue about that) then it might be immune to whatever got screwed up.

Odd. I load EVE.esm before FWE also, but for me it was actually a fix to a problem. When I ran with FWE loading first it seemed to cause problems when certain energy weapons were in use by me or any NPCs. But when I deferred to BOSS and let EVE load first the problems went away and have not recurred. Last suggestion I have is the one that will take you fully over to the dark side: dump FO3edit completely and switch to using Wrye Flash to make your merged patch. :ninja: Just let me know if you need help getting started down that path.... :devil:

What else has changed? Cuz I guarantee something did. If you can think of nothing at all that changed, then try this. Start a new game and play all the way out of the vault to some outdoor combat with bloatflies, molerats or raiders. Does the problem recur? If not, then it may be your save game that changed, by getting some corruption in it.

It sounds like this may be a problem with the integrated Natural Selection. Or perhaps a bad merge on the leveled lists. A fix might be possible by ditching FO3edit and making a bashed patch instead using Wrye Flash. Or you could ditch MMM. For me, the main positive things that MMM added were all FO1 and FO2 throwback things, like floaters, geckos and such. If you can live without those things, and you are not fussed about the whole "natural selection" biz, then you will prolly find your quality of life vastly improved by kicking MMM to the curb...and the crashes with it. If not, then give Wrye a shot and see if you can salvage the thing.