[500 things you have learned in Oblivion]

894. Barbers are also conspicuous by their absence. Yet the hair lengths never seem to change.

895. Ditto hairdressers - but then when did you last see anyone in Oblivion change their hairstyle?

896. If someone is at home, you can't knock - you just barge in.

897. Humans eat meat raw. Goblins roast their rats...

898. Sewers exist. They have water in them. But this water doesn't appear to come from streets or roofs. And there's no indoor (OR outdoor) plumbing...

899. Mudcrabs will pursue you for miles. Ugly things, aren't they?

900. The tutorial dungeon has a little ledge with two gold coins on it. I miss it many times, and then suddenly remember and have to trek back again.

[Green Pact]

I don't recall seeing a cannibalism mod anywhere - but I'm sure one could be arranged. Orc steaks anyone?

[Keeping it "real"]

Hi dallen,

 

I'm trying to avoid COBL at the moment, as a lot of people don't like the "adds loads of stuff" type mods, and even though it's a resource many people see it that way. I certainly intend to try another few setups, and one of those may well be COBL based.

 

Harvest Flora is a "must have" for me (I've installed it almost without thinking this time) - although I've never yet managed to get the "no mushroom stalks" bit working.

 

I may well install the Basic Hypothermia mod a little later on - not sure yet.

 

I'm also avoiding OOO, MMM, etc for one simple reason - they change too many things at once. I use them for my normal game play though, I have a full FCOM install .

 

Better Cities I have lumped in with Unique Landscapes - sure they add lots of stuff, but they don't actually alter the gameplay and that's what this is mostly about. If I start to run low on ESP slots the few cosmetic mods I have installed will all come back out too.

 

I'll look at alternatives to COBL Races, but as I'm not running an Argonian or Khajiit at the moment, it's less relevant.

 

Thanks for the ideas and input though, and welcome to the discussion.

[Just-in-time debugging]

This is probably the point where someone (Hickory?) would normally point out that if you used Wrye Bash and BAIN installers you'd never have that problem, as you'd rebuild the mesh list and it would replace the ones that OO altered. I've done it to save him the trouble. However, learning HOW to use BAIN installers is a whole different subject - and so far I've failed to get my head around it. :(

 

ANY cosmetic mod MAY overwrite a mesh - when you remove it it will probably remove those meshes leaving nothing. That's the problem.

 

So, the rule is - BACKUP your data folder BEFORE installing stuff, then you can restore more easily if it doesn't work.

[IMPORTANT: Giant and Titan Race Mod Wanted]

Doesn't interest me, anyway - sorry.

 

Good luck though if it's what you want.

[a question about installing multiple instances of Oblivion.]

the utility I use for this is mTES4 Manager. It creates clone copies of Oblivion, with separated data and savegame folders. Just one word of warning - it takes 15 mins to make a clone copy of a vanilla(ish) install on my system, and if you do anything else while this happens one or two of the pop-up question boxes may "pop under" the main status screen and be awkward to get at.

 

Once running, when you change clones, allow it to sit for a while to complete moving files. I generally leave it for five minutes (a good time to go make coffee) and have never had a problem with incomplete file transfers. When I tried immediately switching to another clone (being a little indecisive) it corrupted the clone copy.

 

I use it to run 7 different copies, including one copy of Nehrim and one of Morroblivion

[Which is better If I want to mod?]

One more benefit of Steam - if you buy the Deluxe version it includes all of the DLC modules as well, whereas the Game of the Year edition disk set does not. If you do the physical media route, you'll need to download the DLC modules if you want them, or find a copy of the Knights of the Nine retail disk which includes most of the DLCs - but you already have KotN as part of the GotY edition.

[AI For NPC To Travel All Of Tamriel]

That makes it relatively easy to do ... presumably he'd stick to main routes rather than cutting cross country, so if you work out his travel destinations, and allow more than enough time to get to each one, plus some place to go/stay once there (specific inns or lodgings, or a specific camp area if he uses a tent), it should just be a standard wander-type AI package.

[Do you act like a Normal Person in OBLIVION?]

I'm starting a new run-through, with as many realism-enhancing mods as I can find/add installed. As the need for an aspect of realism occurs to me, I'll be adding it, to try and build up what (for me) is a realistic world. I'll also be role-playing as much as possible, and am running at a 1:1 timescale so I don't spend my entire gaming session eating. Which reminds me - several mods add eating and drinking requirements - recommendations please (either in the Keeping it "real" thread or via pm).

[Keeping it "real"]

For me, the "sneaky assassins with torches" made it less immersive, not more. Maybe an additional filter on the system to not use torches if in the subterrene area would do it for the tutorial. It's something I need to think about. Basically, anyone with a torch is an obvious and easy target, and has lost their night sight adaptation, so it's not as obvious as a realism mod as one might think. If you find that "eyes adjust to darkness" mod I'll try it as an alternative - I have savegames (of course).

 

Next two things to add - an Eating / drinking / sleeping mod (as yet undecided which one), and the Inventory is a backpack mod, and probably the Portable Campsite mod too. Obviously i won't be running those til I've sold my loot off. I'm also installing TheNiceOne's Enhanced Economy mod, so it makes it sensible to shop around when selling gear.

[AI For NPC To Travel All Of Tamriel]

Are you meaning one who travels from place to place continually, or one who is capable of going anywhere if needed? If the former,define "all" more carefully as in which locations / ruins/ caves/whatever and in what tinescale.

[Keeping it "real"]

OK - the rest of my tutorial run-through with realism mods in place.

 

I didn't find an "improved" lockpicking mod that suited me, so stuck with vanilla. I'm not quite sure WHAT would improve it for me, although I may try the lockpick crafting mods later. Anyway, to continue...

 

Following the discussion above, I installed Dungeon Actors Have Torches 1.6 and Exterior Actors use Torches with minor fixes 1.32. I then worked my way through to the log pile, in sneak, carrying katana and torch. As the area was lit by torch and firelight, I put out the torch and snuck towards the pile - got spotted ... pushed and rolled the logs. Looted the corpses and chest, then on towards the goblin cave.

 

Staying well back, I swapped to the rusty iron bow. Waited til the first goblin was close then took him out with a single shot - remembering to aim a little high as Duke Patrick's oombat archery mod seems to make arrows drop more than vanilla Oblivion. Obviously his screech was still not enough to alert the other goblins. Picked off the other two "normal" goblins, then lined up to shoot the goblin witch. Shot - hit - and because of Duke Patricks Actors can miss now mod, he managed to miss me totally with the responding fireball and lightning. Killed by second shot.

 

Worked through to the Inperial Subterrene, and then noticed one effect of the Dungeon Actors Have Torches mod - nearly every Mythic Dawn assassin was preceded by a bright yellow glow as they were all carrying torches :)

 

Out to the sewer, where apart from the allowance for arrow drop, everything was as vanilla Oblivion.

 

Saved at sewer exit.

 

The main way this has differed from my "normal" run at the tutorial is I had to rely on my sword, and hardly used my bow except in the lit goblin cave. Once I get some kind of night eye ability I'll revert to my normal modus operandi, but til then I'm forced to use a blade :( - not an entirely happy camper at that. However, it DID make it more difficult and more "realistic" which is the whole aim.

[Keeping it "real"]

I was thinking much the same way on night sight and adjustment to darkness. Torches should certainly have quite an effect on your night sight - and should also "turn off" the Khajiit night-eye effect (and maybe be over-bright for those without a natural ability who are using a spell version?)

 

For Khajiits or wearers of "permenant night-eye" items, I was thinking a gentle transition to a monochrome look for the night-eye, probably by de-saturating colour and then adjusting darkness and gamma levels. I considered a greenish tint like night-sight goiggles but it looks too much like the default lighting in Ayleid ruins. Settings probably configurable by the user and held in an ini file. Possibly based on Khajiit Auto Night-Eye. Something based on this script could trigger the "slow adjust" phase of a light level change I'm sure.

 

There are alternative night-eye shaders around which I may try out once I have the spell or an object that gives me the ability - Less Overpowered Nighteye looks interesting as it also gives a mask effect to your field of vision, and some of the options in Nighteye Shader Replacement look very interesting too

 

Making actors in caves use torches has a few knock-on effects - the droppable torches have to work for them too, or you could get an excessive number of suicidal drops in the dark where npc's see you, grab their weapons, and run over a chasm edge... You may still get them, depending on WHERE they drop the torch :)

[Keeping it "real"]

Maybe - the ones on the torch mod may count as custom as they have adjusted life and light output. If not, I'll use the two separate mods.

 

Another realism mod we need - sight adjustment to darkness/light, with the appropriate delay. Now THAT would be fun - especially if YOU had something to make you immune and your enemy didn't - run out of the cave, turn, and slaughter them.

[Keeping it "real"]

I'll probably go with DungeonAndExterior Actors Have Torches as it saves me an ESP slot, unless it doesn't work. If it fails I'll use the two above - thanks for the links.

 

And re the dead goblins - if you run a full FCOM install there are different clans of goblins, and sometimes in the tutorial cave there's more than one clan. They fight - to the death! Just need to kill the last one, and loot the corpses!

[Anyone in Las Vegas with experience installing FCOM mod?]

Google for the FCOM Superpack - you'll still need OBMM and Wrye Bash, but it's as simple as it'll ever get. You WILL end up with some of the optional mods, and you may not like them all, but you can uninstall the bits you hate and just rebuild the bashed patch.

 

Personally I went with the uFCOM OMOD file though - that made it fairly simple

[Odd NPC's Names]

Russian and Japanese mods tend to the the ones - you find one via Google that looks right but it's a localised version and it clobbers everything

Every now and then I get a German mod and it renames half of the places in the Imperial City - That's quite fun...

 

Oh, and pick one or t'other of the Ren's packs - they are mutually exclusive

[Fresh Install Of Oblivion Won't run with fcom installed?]

Some of the mods may have sctipts that take time to initialise - e.g. OBGEv2 on my system can take 30 seconds or so while I'm stuck doing nothing at the start of a fresh game. Look at the HDD light - if it's on , or flashing wildly, leave it to settle down first.

 

Also defrag the hard drive after an install, and turn off any on-demand antivirus scan - as Oblivion accesses hundreds of files that can make any system stutter and freeze

[Keeping it "real"]

Realism from scratch - first attempt.

 

OK, so it's time to put stuff into practice. How "realistic" can I make my game, starting in the tutorial jail cell. I'm mixing cosmetic and gameplay mods a little, as you'll see.

 

My character is a female Bosmer, aiming to be primarily an archer/sniper/thief type. Preinstalled OBSE, OBGEv2

 

Initial mods added for realism:

QTP3 Redimized Reduced - Because I have several other mods to add that have QTP3 options and I might as well start off with it.

Animated Window Lighting System and Chimneys - Added because it looks good from outside, and I know I'll be installing it once I get outdoors anyway.

Weather - All Natural - Added to get the "Real Lights" feature, so light actually comes only from "proper" light sources.

SM Encumbrance and Fatigue - I want to carry more, even if I have to drag it and rest a lot. This seems to fit the bill so far.

Cava Obscura - Dark caves and dungeons - now those torches are actually needed.

Duke Patricks Combat Archery mod - because I've been meaning to try it, and apparently it's going to be built into Skyrim.

While I was at it, I also added several more of the good Duke's mods (because they seem to cover other aspects of realism)...

Duke Patricks - Actors Can Miss Now

Duke Patricks - Near Miss Magic And Arrows Alert The Target

Duke Patricks Fresh Kills Now Alert The NPCs

 

OK, so I start the game going. Cell is darker, and the light comes from the torches and the corridor. plus the window.

 

(Pet irritation - I *know* that voice, but the face is wrong. Note to self - try and make a orking replacer for the Emperor using the NPC Texture Tweak and TNR's stuff.)

 

The usual suspects arrive, and make a hole in the cell wall. Goodness it's dark, but there's a dropped torch at the bottom. Scurry down and pick it up. Remember that I can't actually use it to hit someone, and if I drop it I'm in the dark. Thinks... Of course, now I need a droppable torch mod. Normally I'd run OOO which contains one, but this is a game based on a vanilla-ish install. So, plenty of DLT mods around, but eventually I went for Drop Lit Torches OBSE. I considered a Torch-as-a-weapon mod, but decided against as I will be sneaking mostly once I get some kind of night sight ability.

 

OK - steal stuff off the assassin bodies (I was too far back to get near them when they killed Renault) and pick up Renault's katana & short sword. Wall crumbles, and in come the rats. Press "F" to fight, torch drops ok, and I can still see. Wallop rats, heal self, pick up torch.

 

Creep through the hole, and start investigating. Deal with additional rat, heal, and pick up all of the goodies in the area, including picking a simple lock (which reminds me to lookm at lock-picking game alternatives). Can't aim at the well bucket - can't see it. Walk to well - drop torch. Walk back, aim at bucket, fire, miss. Repeat and hit.

 

Now creep onwards. Because I can't see much, due to the limited light range, I'm listening for every change in ambience (it doesn't help that I'm a little deaf. Maybe I shouldn't have replaced my Bosmer's ears with the shorter mesh ones from a dark elf). Flare spell at the ready I edge forwards. More rats, another chest, and then a passage leading down ... more rats .. and something making odd noises ahead. Kill the rats as they pass, then hurl a flare down the passage. See a zombie picking off another rat, then starting my way. Apply a couple m,ore flares, then hit it with the katana. Ex-zombie. (Realism note - should then burn the body perhaps?).

 

On and on ... find an openish area, with a couple more rats, and another chest - a harder lock. Thinks - realism and locks ... save game, look at mods to alter lockpicking.

 

To be continued. Comments welcome.

[strange sound]

Alternativel;y tick the option to silence script effects in the build section for the bashed Patch on Wrye Bash if you use it

[Creating SI Facegen characters: Tutorial]

Hi Urrl - great tutorial.

 

You obviously know your way around the whole process, so can you answer me this - why you need to make a new playable race to put this face onto a npc - wouldn't a combination of the techniques used in TNR and NPC Tex Tweak allow you to put the face onto (say) an imperial? Or are there other problems?

 

Because each race in the game shares a single texture set. Not a separate one for each character. If you didn't make a new race for your character you would have to switch the texture of one of the existing races, which would mean every character and noc in the game of that race would have their textures switched to your new one as well.

 

You missed the point of npc Tex Tweak. I quote...

 

"It allows you to create and use a unique texture for every NPC in the game by using a simple OBSE plug-in. At the moment it only works with OBSE version 12 and Oblivion version 1.2.0.416." ... except it probably works with later versions of OBSE too

[Keeping it "real"]

There MIGHT be a way around that limitation, possibly. Someone's working on an improved conversation mod, where you have a background program that runs and it accessed by the game engine vis scripts. What the limitations are I don't know, but if it can run extra npc's AIs in a second core, it might be a way to bypass certain game engine limitations - just use npc's as objects unless directly interacting

 

Pure speculation of course.

[Keeping it "real"]

Telyn,

 

Thanks for the viewpoint. Personally I prefer the game without guns and the attendant stuff, but I thought I'd open it up for discussion as it is a 2real2 item that could have been added without too much anachronism.

 

No guns for me, anyway.

 

Siege engines are quite another thing though ... Catapults and Trebuchets anyone?

[Please help with installing unofficial patch and Shivering Isles]

(Almost) no modding with D2D. Ditto with Impulse. Steam or hard copy only.

[Well Optimized graphics mods]

You are playing an old game, designed for older cards and a single processor. The newer games can make far better use of multiple cores than Oblivion. With Oblivion, one fast core beats two or more slower cores every time. 20-30 fps is fine for TV or cinema - why worry about it for gaming?