HeyYou

If Israel, and Palestine were a married couple, they would be filing for divorce (a long time ago....) for "irreconcilable differences"...... There isn't ever going to be peace there as long as there are both palestinians, and Israelis, exist at the same time. Neither side is willing to give the other what they really want. Israel is NEVER going to go back to the pre-1968 borders, they aren't going to give up a bunch of their settlements, regardless of if they were legal or not...... and Palestine is not going to be happy with the borders that Israel wants to draw. It is an impasse, and no amount of diplomacy is ever going to solve it. With the Arab Spring goin' on.... Israel is more and more finding itself surrounding by (even more) hostile neighbors, and that isn't likely to improve either. Are we having fun yet?

Why? I am not entirely sure Iran has the capacity to enrich uranium to weapons grade levels.... yet. If they wanna produce their own nuclear fuel, all well and good.

"But how many times a year do you honestly go on a road trip when you use your own car? You typically rent a car, because you don't want to put mileage on your own car. Really? You do?? Hhhmm..... I don't rent a car. Ever. Can't afford it. If I wanna go on vacation, I drive my own vehicle. Besides, what's the point of going to an off-road park in something you can't take off road?? And I seriously doubt ANY electric vehicle is going to tow my truck to where I want to be...... at least, not any electric vehicle that has to cart around it's own power.

Oh, I don't have a problem with Israel having nukes, they are a significantly more stable regime than some of the other nuclear powers...... (Pakistan, India, N. Korea.......) I don't have a problem with the existence of Israel either. (although, the whole partitioning of the middle east after WWII was certainly not implemented very well.......) I DO have some issues with their foreign policies though..... but, that's for another thread. :) Thanks for the info on some of the history there though. Muchly appreciated. A nuclear Iran, though certainly not something I see as in the worlds best interests...... (right along with a nuclear anyone else.....) IS something we are going to have to deal with. Sure, we can bomb the facilities, and set them back a few years, but, is that really something we want to have to do every few years????? A good percentage of the muslim world doesn't particularly care for the west as it is, bombing one of their 'buds' on a regular basis most certainly is NOT going to endear us to them..... Even Iraq is moving closer to Iran...... and given the events currently going on there, I could see a time when they become really good buddies... won't that be fun? So, what are our choices here? Bomb Iran every few years, on the suspicion that they are developing the bomb? Wait until they test one, and then bomb the crap out of them? (as we would have evidence they did indeed have a nuclear weapons program......) Or, let them develop the bomb, and keep them on notice that should one of their bombs detonate somewhere outside their border, even 'by accident'..... there is gonna be a terrible price to be paid......? Or heck, they may continue with their peaceful development of nuclear power, and never bother building a bomb... just to keep the rest of the world guessing. The first option would seriously annoy a good chunk of the muslim world, and terrorist recruiting would skyrocket, as "the great satan" perpetrated an 'unprovoked' attack against a sovereign muslim nation. Again.... Ooooo, would the terrorists LOVE that...... The second option would give us a bit more of a leg to stand on at least.... we would have some concrete evidence of a nuclear weapons program at least... something that we don't really have at the moment. The muslim world make shake their fingers at us, but, would have less grounds for a jihad against the west. (like they really need a valid reason......) The third option? While it would most certainly SUCK for someone...... (several million someones really.....) the consequences for Iran would be horrific. They would immediately become a pariah nation, except for a VERY few staunch supporters...... most of whom we could ignore anyway, and the rest of the world would more than likely support the drubbing Iran would take for it. (Russia and China might make some noise, but, in the end, they wouldn't be able to say a hell of a lot.....) The fourth option? This would be the ideal..... but, not what I expect to happen. :) I still think we should just drop all the damn sanctions, that aren't doing a hell of a lot anyway... (I mean, seriously, we have had sanctions in place against Cuba for better than 50 years.... and that hasn't made one whit of difference.) Allowing Iranian oil onto the common market would go at least a little ways toward easing the price of gasoline right here in the states....... Iran is going to do what they are going to do anyway.... Might just as well accept it, and make the best of a bad situation.

Yeah, sometimes the presidential jokes don't go over well. (for the president....) After all, look at the keel-hauling ol' Ronnie received for the "I'm pushing the button NOW." remark on Air Force One back in the day. :D Look at it this way, at least it wasn't a white robe, with a conical hat, with cutouts for the eyes. :D

The Israelis have used the threat of the use of nuclear weapons on more than one occasion. Certainly, they have not done so lately...... I don't recall hearing Iran stating that as soon as they had one that worked, they would erase Jerusalem from the map though...... Of course, calling for the destruction of Israel doesn't exactly endear them either.... But again, they are not the only country with that particular rallying cry..... Egypt is starting to become more and more anti-Israel as well. (oh gee, big surprise there.....) As for the Israel/Palestine thing.... well, that's been going on for decades, and BOTH sides share the blame for that particular debacle. PART of the problem is, the Jews see ALL of that land as theirs, given to them by God..... Doesn't matter that very few, if any of them were there prior to 1948...... nor does it seem to matter that none of them even really have any recent ancestry from that area. (at the time...) They were mostly displaced Russian Jews. Personally, that is an issue I think the US should just butt out of, and let the two sides figger that one out on their own. I suspect the issues surrounding that won't be completely resolved until one side, or the other.... are all dead. (take a wild stab in the dark at which side is more likely to survive. :D) In my view, Iran has every right to develop nuclear weapons, treaty signatory or no. They can always abrogate the treaty, in the same manner that N. Korea did. In all reality, that would almost be a better idea for them, than sticking with their current course. Now, should Iran decide to USE one of said nuclear weapons, either directly, or, via some third party (hezbollah/hamas), they ALSO have the right to become a glass covered parking lot. Mr. Dinnerjacket isn't going to be in power (such as it is) for much longer, lets hope the next pres there is a tad more moderate...... (sane?)

If you are sleeping on your arm, you are probably just cutting off circulation to it, in which event, it goes 'dead'..... go long enough, and when you wake up, you won't feel it, you won't be able to control it, it will just hang there, until circulation resumes. That's when you get the pins and needles sensation..... which can be painful on occasion. Don't make a habit of it... it isn't really good for your arm..... not sure how long it can go before permanent damage starts happening.

Might wanna do a bit of Research on Israel's "samson option".......

My point is, it seems we press harder on our 'enemies' than we do on our allies for nuclear inspection. And even then, 'enemies' that are closer to OIL, get pressed all the harder. At this point, we have a selection of countries with nukes, some of which we are pretty certain support terrorism, (yes, pakistan, I am looking at YOU.) yet are we screaming for inspections there? Supposedly, the whole premise here is, we don't want Iran to have nukes, because we are afraid they will use them. Ok, once again, what about N. Korea? They HAVE the bomb. They are testing long range delivery systems. Why isn't ANYONE screaming to high heaven that we go in there and blow up their stuff?? Seems to me, at the moment, N. Korea is the bigger nuclear threat, but, no one seems to care. And why is that? NO OIL. Iran has every right to object, when they are being singled out for attention, when there are other folks that are setting off bombs, that don't get a second glance. Can you blame them for being uncooperative? Not to mention the fact that we are convicting them of a crime with little or no proof, and we are rapidly heading for a military confrontation, based on rumors and innuendo. (and pressure from Israel.....) Iran insists they are not building a bomb. Why should we not take them at their word, right up to the point they set off their first test bomb? At that point, some manner of intervention would be a good idea, but, unless/until they actually use a weapon on someone outside their borders, they are guilty of nothing more than a desire for some self defense.

You and I both know that if you have to go.... fast is the preferred method...living in one of the other primary target zones I'll have just enough time to have a smoke and watch the flash. On topic..I absolutely am not a conspiracy advocate..so no I don't buy into mysterious cabals plotting away wearing hooded robes with chanting in the background. :whistling: How did you know they were wearing hooded robes, and have chanting in the background? OH GOD!!! A IS ONE OF THEM!!!!!! :ohmy: The Grand Master assures me that we don't exist..... :ninja: Really? Cool. That is SUCH a relief. :D

Yes. The IAEA visits all sorts of civilian nuclear sites, reviewing for safety and suggesting security upgrades where there's a proliferation threat. After a nuclear accident, the IAEA also assists in the clean-up. In the past 10 years, the IAEA has made 100 official visits to power plants and enrichment facilities, 120 to border crossings, and 200 to hospitals. Note: CIVILIAN nuclear facilities. I am not entirely sure Iran has ANY non-military nuclear facilities..... their government is a tad different than ours..... that, and the IAEA isn't telling Iran squat about what goes on in our facilities.... meanwhile, they release reports about their 'findings' everywhere else they inspect. (and which Israel does NOT appear on the list....)

S. Korea isn't as 'good' an ally as Israel?

You and I both know that if you have to go.... fast is the preferred method...living in one of the other primary target zones I'll have just enough time to have a smoke and watch the flash. On topic..I absolutely am not a conspiracy advocate..so no I don't buy into mysterious cabals plotting away wearing hooded robes with chanting in the background. :whistling: How did you know they were wearing hooded robes, and have chanting in the background? OH GOD!!! A IS ONE OF THEM!!!!!! :ohmy:

Trouble is, even today, only the very wealthy can afford the kind of coverage you want for everyone. Back in the day, when folks graduated from High School, or college, and went to work for a company, and STAYED THERE for 20 or 30 years, the companies could provide pretty good health coverage, and it was actually affordable. Now, if folks stay in a job more than three years, it is unusual..... no one wants to provide health care for a temporary employee...... and with the advances in 'modern science', there are ever newer, (more expensive...) tests that can be performed, so that when you get dragged into court, you can point and say "Well, I did EVERYTHING possible....."

Exactly. Ahmedinajad is by no definition rational. And, if they have nothing to hide, why not let those inspectors in as Aurelius said? After all they would gain a tremendous propaganda coup by so doing, and make us in the West, and the Israelis too, look very foolish and warmongering. But they aren't letting the inspectors in, which makes me think that they are not innocent and are trying to make nukes - they probably are too incompetent so far or have been frustrated by the Israelis to date. I agree with Nintii too about the Straits of Hormuz. Do we have IAEA inspectors in the US, going thru all of our nuclear facilities, and telling our secrets to our potential enemies? What about North Korea? We KNOW FOR A FACT that they have the bomb, but, where's the hue and cry to go and blow up THEIR facilities? Is the government there more rational than Iran?? Why should Iran allow their nuclear program to be put under a microscope, when it appears to be common knowledge that Israel has nukes, but, there aren't any inspections there either? Why are we singling out Iran from all the 'potential' nuclear powers for such scrutiny? Why should Iran allow them in, when it appears many others get a pass on it? I can see their point really. Maybe it isn't because they have something to hide, perhaps they view inspectors as a violation of their sovereignty, or some such. There is also the real possibility that by our very actions, with all the sanctions, and bluster, that we are actually DRIVING Iran to develop the bomb, in what in their view is "self defense". Relieve the pressure, and they would have less reason to NEED a nuke. Are WE our own worst enemy here??? (not like that hasn't happened before....) The current president of Iran is basically just a figure-head. Nothing he says carries any weight within his own borders. He has alienated most of his supporters, including the supreme head of Iran, without whose approval, Achwhatever can't even go to the john. :D He is all bluster and noise, signifying nothing.

You make a host of valid points, chief of which is, Something Needs To Change. So far, everyone is looking at this from the consumption side, why not take a look at the other side of the equation? If you want to decrease cost, INCREASE SUPPLY. What needs to happen is, the environment that doctors and other health care workers operate in, needs to be a LOT less hostile. Controls need to be put in place so that health care workers aren't basically cowering in terror each time they make a decision. Starting with Tort reform. Make it easier to BE a health care worker, and maybe more folks will be inclined to go into the field, increasing supply.

Instigating a nuclear war would just be flat out stupid. In a strategic nuclear war (everybody launches what they got) there are NO winners. The surface of the earth will be pretty much unlivable for decades, if not centuries. Expecting to keep it to a 'limited exchange' is self-delusion. (not that politicians aren't good at that....) Even areas that aren't directly bombed, will be affected by fallout, rendering most of the arable land unsuitable for agriculture. No, strategic nuclear war would be the end of the human race. (though, the cockroaches wouldn't mind....) I would not be surprised to see the *probable* upcoming war in Iran spiral out of control, and degenerate into a general free-for-all though. Starting a war there, is going to do bad things™ for everyone. Not just the combatants. That has GREAT potential to escalate into WWIII. Not that it would even be a concern for me.... as I live in the middle of a number of primary targets, and depending on how often Russia updates their target list, I probably have a primary target less then four miles away. I would just be radioactive dust, blowing on the wind. :D Now, I do indeed believe that a horrendous economic collapse is coming, but, I do NOT believe that it is being purposely orchestrated by some shadow group or other. Merely the stupidity, and greed, of politicians.

Go and hide somewhere with NO NPC's around for three and a half days. (or, whatever your respawn timer is set to, plus a half a day.) Then try the trip again.

What speed is your internet connection? The version on the disk is outdated, (surprise!) so, the first thing steam does is download the patches and such. If you are on something like dialup, or even some of the slower flavors of DSL, that can indeed take a long time...... One of the drawbacks of tying the game to steam.

Hilarious in its' accuracy of describing some forum personalities. :D Most of which, fortunately, we don't see here.

Israel wants something to happen with Iran. After all, they are in close proximity, and are an acknowledged target of some of the rhetoric coming from Tehran. Not to mention the 'boogey-man' that a nuclear armed Iran represents makes a great distraction for the politicians, to keep attention away from what they are screwing up right here at home. I don't think anyone is advocating 'boots on the ground' there yet though. Seems most just want some tactical bombing done, to set back, if not destroy, Irans current nuclear capability. Cruise missiles, and possibly aircraft I think would be the most we would see going in at this point. Conventional weapons at that, as the west using nukes there would SERIOUSLY piss off the middle east. (among others......) We don't wanna precipitate WWIII here. That would be just stupid. (although, I will grant, I have seen some pretty stupid decisions come out of washington in the past......) In all reality, simply rendering the facilities un-usable, or inaccessible, would be adequate to the task, we don't actually have to destroy them...... And then there is the real possibility that Iran is telling the truth, and they are NOT actually attempting to develop the bomb. No one really seems to want to buy into that theory though..... Everyone wants to paint Iran as 'the bad guys', to justify whatever actions they finally decide to take. If the Iranian government appeared a bit more rational, this would really be a non-issue. However, since the world perceives them as "radicals"..... no one trusts them. If it were up to me, I would dump all the sanctions and such, and let Iran rejoin the world economy. Let them get their economy back on track, and perhaps they would get the idea that we are NOT their enemy, and are not looking to bring about regime change in yet another country. After all, if they ARE going to develop the bomb, they are going to have to test at least one, and THAT will be immediately obvious to every geological society that monitors earthquakes. (nukes have a VERY specific signature, unlike ANYTHING found in nature. the equipment scattered about the world WILL register an Iranian nuke test.) Should that particular event come to pass, deal with it then. The real question becomes, I suppose, what right do we, as a nuclear armed nation, have telling Iran that they CAN'T develop the bomb? There is a big difference between having one, and actually using it. We are basically trying to put someone in prison (figuratively) for something they MIGHT do....... If we tried to do that to an american citizen, the hue and cry would be heard from coast to coast. What justifies convicting some country of a crime that they haven't committed? Is it simply because we don't like their form of government? Also, Iran knows VERY well exactly what would happen should they, or some third party they supply, sets off a nuke outside their national borders. (say, Jerusalem, for instance.....) We can trace the bomb back to its origins, and the price to be paid for that particular indiscretion would be terrible. It would be a quite simple matter to reduce Iran to a glass coated parking lot in about an hour. (flight time of the missiles.....) Does anyone seriously think that the powers that be in Iran would really consider such folly? I seriously doubt that EVERYONE in that government is insane........ even religious zealotry doesn't go quite that far.

Any sort of age-based rationing will never fly, for a variety of reasons. Sadly, I think the primary reason is, live people generate income. Dead ones do not. At this point in time, doctors/health care providers will go to extreme measures to keep someone alive, long past the point it makes any sense to.

I am curious how they plan to kill off 90% of the worlds population. Trials, or even assassinations would take incredibly long, and humans breed faster than they could execute them...... Some genetically engineered disease? This one I could see....... and I would not be surprised to learn we already have the capability of doing this. (actually, I would be surprised to learn that we did NOT have the capability to do this.....) But, killing off a boatload of people, and then expecting to enslave the remainder? Unrealistic. WAY too much territory to hide in.

And what's really funny is, congress is attempting/has passed a 'tax break' that reduces the social security tax for both workers, and employers. Nice huh. The republicans like to scream that SS is broke, and needs to be revamped, but, they still vote to gut it some more.......

I heard that SubjectProphet was a figment of the board servers imagination, I also heard, that he is the personification of the server....... :D