Trying to understand

[HadToRegister]

OH MY GOSH *angels singing* All the messages are gone....x'D....that feels so good. Ok, I really need to start doing this here more often when necessary.

 

I just wanted to tell ya'll that in the last days, all this solidarity helped me a lot. Here in the comments, over pms...and discord. And I wanted to thank the people who are vocal, still are and who try to be a support system that considers others.

 

:smile: Sometimes I have a hard time coping in general with injustice and lack of empathy. This thread helped me a lot. As well all the nice pms I got from people. <3

 

I hope you all find for yourself a solution and aren't too exhausted after you fiddled out what to do with your mod, set them up somwhere else, what can stay here, or reupload again....etc. etc.

 

I had only 11 mods....Baby MA. So many of you have so such a big amount of them. Just that you know I think of you, and know this is a lot and I can imagine the struggle. :smile: The good thing is, it doesn't matter what with nexus is, you and your mods exist and have value, no matter what. :smile:

 

Because in the end it's your blood, sweat and soul that is the glue what keeps this ship together. I am proud of you all, and glad content creating in any form is part of my life.

 

You are all awesome!

 

\o/

 

 

It doesn't matter how many mods you have, 11 isn't a "baby MA", I only have 5 more than you, and I consider Myself a "Beginning Modder" as well, but, in the end you're a modder with 1 mod or 100 :)

[MarchinBunny]

Honestly, I can't wait till this is all over. The drama that has been caused over this is pretty absurd, but I suppose I shouldn't be surprised with this community. Not like this is the first time things have been over dramatic.They say they want understanding, but then they don't even want to hear any sort of view but their own. There is never going to be understadning if you don't want to listen and ignore everything. All well.

They can go back to their bubble. Not like it really matters at the end of the day whether they understand or not. The change is coming either way.

[jenncave]

who do you think is not understanding? Most if not all of the posters on here do understand. They disagree with it, as I do. But that doesn't mean that we don't understand. Now, you done with ad hominin attacks? Cause if you were not 'trolling' before (your definition) You most certainly are now.

[MarchinBunny]

who do you think is not understanding? Most if not all of the posters on here do understand. They disagree with it, as I do. But that doesn't mean that we don't understand. Now, you done with ad hominin attacks? Cause if you were not 'trolling' before (your definition) You most certainly are now.

What ad hom? I didn't use an ad hominem attack, so no idea what you are talking about. Plus, it's kind of rich you are claiming I used an ad hominem when you literally are using one yourself, saying I am trolling, which is an ad hominem attack. Can you explain exactly what you mean by I am trolling? What part of my post is trollish?

 

As for understanding ... not sure if you realize this, but when someone says they came to an understanding with another person on their view point ... it typically means they have come to some sort of settlement on the view that they both can agree on. It's not necessarily an agreement on the solution, but there is an understanding of why the oher holds the view that they do. As far as I can tell, nothing like that has happened here. After all, if there was understanding, there wouldn't be an argument going on still. It's also why the thread is called "Trying to Understand" ... so it's not like I am the only one using the word in this way.

[WileCoyote68]

If you are not ready to do something yourself, you have no right to demand it from others. You should have understood by now that the way you argue will not raise you any understanding. You have not even understood that most of the mod authors who comment here are not rejecting the function of the collections fundamentally, but rather rejecting the technical implementation and the way the argumentation is made. Since you are not ready to accept this, it would be time to give up and go on your way.

[CrashRakashe]

I'm going to make this very simple for you @Brabbit1987.

 

Minecraft mudding isn't the same as TES/Fallout Modding. I understand that mod packs and modding mod is a core part to the MC Modding scene, and that's perfectly okay. For minecraft, not for TES/Fallout which is what The Nexus mostly is, as it started as a Morrowind site. You've got to understand that collections, for the most part, just don't work all that well for TES/Fallout. It's not what the community is, and it's not the greatest idea when someone who doesn't have much of an understanding about load order puts some stuff in a pack together and calls it a day. Modding isn't a monoculture. The rules for modding Resident Evil, Minecraft, TES/Fallout, Stardew Valley, and Star Wars Battlefront 2 (2005) all differ from one and other.

 

On top of that, it's not the collection system most people are pissed with. It's the removal of version control, something that the staff commented on 3 years ago being a really bad idea.

[axonis]

@LeelooMinai, great post :happy:

[axonis]

@Brabbit1987,

Alternatively, you could say that you don't support older mod versions, and suggest they update their load order entirely if they would like help.

Which assumes that users read suggestions ? If that would be the case, then there wouldn't be an issue.

9 out of 10 of my support requests are solved by the "Please follow the installation instructions at the Readme file" even though this may take a lot of time to conclude.

Which brings me back to my first point. This can happen even if you do delete the files. Because deleting them doesn't delete it off of everyone's computer. Anyone can keep an old version installed for really any length of time.

There's a huge difference between a local and a public file.

For example, this page contains an old version of my mod. I'll ask you to take a look at the comments section, especially the post made at 16 September 2020, 9:49PM to understand the problems it's giving me. I literally had to go to Discord to find the source of this advice and explain to them why they had to stop it.

Point is, I just want to mod in my own terms, which is why I sometimes need to exercise whatever options Copyright affords me. Relinquishing those rights would be a stupid move for me, and it would work badly for the modding scene in the long run.

Those who are trying to force authors to do so, aren't working for the modding scene's favor either.

[MarchinBunny]

If you are not ready to do something yourself, you have no right to demand it from others. You should have understood by now that the way you argue will not raise you any understanding. You have not even understood that most of the mod authors who comment here are not rejecting the function of the collections fundamentally, but rather rejecting the technical implementation and the way the argumentation is made. Since you are not ready to accept this, it would be time to give up and go on your way.

Right, some mod authors disagree with the implantation specifically of not being able to delete files permanently, whereas some don't necessarily mind the archiving, but do mind that they can't control whether or not an older version can be seen and downloaded within a collection. I am very well aware of that. But my argument from the start has been there is actually very little downside to it, especially given the positives that comes from it. It's such a small sacrifice.

 

As for the rejection of the collections, some do reject it. In fact, just one comment below yours is a good example.

 

 

I'm going to make this very simple for you @Brabbit1987.

 

Minecraft mudding isn't the same as TES/Fallout Modding. I understand that mod packs and modding mod is a core part to the MC Modding scene, and that's perfectly okay. For minecraft, not for TES/Fallout which is what The Nexus mostly is, as it started as a Morrowind site. You've got to understand that collections, for the most part, just don't work all that well for TES/Fallout. It's not what the community is, and it's not the greatest idea when someone who doesn't have much of an understanding about load order puts some stuff in a pack together and calls it a day. Modding isn't a monoculture. The rules for modding Resident Evil, Minecraft, TES/Fallout, Stardew Valley, and Star Wars Battlefront 2 (2005) all differ from one and other.

 

On top of that, it's not the collection system most people are pissed with. It's the removal of version control, something that the staff commented on 3 years ago being a really bad idea.

Of course they are not the same. But that doesn't mean collections can't be done. Also, you are severely underestimating how complicated setting up a minecraft modpack is. It's actually way more complicated than a load order. Just about every mod for minecraft has a configuration file that you will typically have to go in and edit. Sometimes due to several mods adding the same type of ore, or sometimes to disable certain features or recipes. Then you also have to consider that many recipes can conflict and so you have to write a json file to fix those conflicts. Then unless you are making a kitchen sink pack, you have to also consider balance and so you may want to change certain recipes to require something harder to get.

 

BGS modding a cake walk in comparison, at least from my own experience and I do both often. Now don't get me wrong, you can technically just throw a ton of mods together in minecraft, load it up and it will generally still function at the very least (assuming you also downloaded all the dependencies). But it's going to be a mess. Point I am really making here is ... there are plenty of packs on Curseforge that are not very good. And you know what? No one downloads them. All the well maintained packs, and packs that are done well ... rise to the top and those are the ones most download. Same would happen here. So it doesn't really matter if someone who doesn't understand load order throws a pack together, if it's not done well ... people will say so and stop downloading it.

 

As for the staff changing their mind. I am well aware. People tend to do that sometimes over time. I am even willing to bet there are a few mod authors who are heavily against all of this right now who will later feel it isn't as big of a deal as they originally thought, and change their mind.

 

Change is scary. But it's rarely ever as bad as our minds like to make it out to be.

 

 

 

 

Which assumes that users read suggestions ? If that would be the case, then there wouldn't be an issue.

 

9 out of 10 of my support requests are solved by the "Please follow the installation instructions at the Readme file" even though this may take a lot of time to conclude.

 

Right, but that is always going to be a problem. I am not kidding when I say people don't even read huge gigantic signs right in front of their face in real life while out and about. You could even put blinking lights on the thing and some people still would notice it or read it. You will always have to deal with those kinds of people sadly, but that is just a part of support ... no real way around it.

 

BTW, before I continue on the next part ... I am just going to thank you. Seriously I appreciate being able to discuss this without being called a troll. It can get aggravating and I am really trying to remain as patient as possible.

 

 

 

 

There's a huge difference between a local and a public file.

For example, this page contains an old version of my mod. I'll ask you to take a look at the comments section, especially the post made at 16 September 2020, 9:49PM to understand the problems it's giving me. I literally had to go to Discord to find the source of this advice and explain to them why they had to stop it.

Point is, I just want to mod in my own terms, which is why I sometimes need to exercise whatever options Copyright affords me. Relinquishing those rights would be a stupid move for me, and it would work badly for the modding scene in the long run.

Those who are trying to force authors to do so, aren't working for the modding scene's favor either.

Ya, I can see how that would certainly be annoying to have to deal with, and I am sorry you have had to. People tend to handle things differently, and for some what might be fine for them might not be fine for others. I absolutely respect that and understand. I think those who want to retain full control should honestly go their own way, assuming Nexus goes through with it. And I know some see this as their home, but if it doesn't work for you ... there is no sense in staying.

 

Like .. I really wish I could just say, it all will work out or ... we can do both on the same site. I would be happy to see there being a solution that works for everyone while not needing to go their separate ways. I just think this is one of those cases where it can't work both ways. I don't think the mod authors who want to leave are wrong too. I don't even think it's wrong to be upset about this change. But I also don't think Nexus is wrong either. It's just honestly a difference in views, and perspectives on ... essentially the future of modding. There will be those who disagree and those who agree. BTW ... I still disagree with it being "forced" ... I don't consider it forced when the option to leave is on the table ... even if it isn't an option that some want to take.

 

With all that said, thank you for your perspective on this. You make a valid point and can see how dealing with older versions of files can be a major pain.

[WileCoyote68]

The benefits it brings does not affect everyone and comes at the expense of others. Thus, this argument is not particularly valuable. For you this may be a small sacrifice for others it is the linchpin of the whole discussion. If you cannot bring better arguments, the whole discussion with you has no value