Trying to understand

[madmongo]

I have also removed all of my mods. For me, it's also not nerd rage, petulance, or spite.

 

I am not willing to just hand complete control of everything that I have made over to someone else. I have never asked for money for any of my mods. I don't want donation points or anything else. I want my work to be available for free. But it is my work.

 

I have also been very specific in the permissions of my mods that I do not allow them to be placed in any type of collection. They also cannot be used in paid mods.

 

Not only is the Nexus no longer allowing me to restrict permissions on my mods, they also want to take complete control of them. These are two things that I am not willing to do.

 

What really annoys me is that the staff keeps saying how they have been giving us a choice, like they are being nice about it. The only choice we had was to either give complete control of our mods over to the Nexus or to remove everything. Some choice. If you think that's a nice choice, then you are sadly mistaken. That's basically flat out saying "it's our way or the highway, dude."

 

I have been a member of this community for over a decade. Robin and the staff have now made it very clear that I am no longer welcome here. I am not willing to agree to the new ToS, so I'm gone. They literally left me no other choice.

 

I do modding as a hobby. I am not one of the most prolific mods here nor am I one of the most popular mods here. I'm just a little guy. So my leaving won't exactly send a huge message to anyone (though to my surprise I have actually had people contact me regarding my mods being deleted). But if the staff here doesn't see the problem with making even a little guy like me feel completely unwelcome here, then there is something seriously wrong with this place. That is not the way to treat someone who has been a member here for over a decade.

 

I was also pretty irked that they removed my access to the mod author forums. That wouldn't have stopped me from removing my mods, but it would have been nice to have at least known about it beforehand. That felt like yet another slap in the face. "Oh, you're not willing to give us complete control of your mods and put them in collections? Fine. Take all of your mods and go, and we don't consider you to be a mod author any more. You're just a nobody. Don't let the door hit you in the a** on the way out." That's what it felt like.

 

If the staff suddenly announced that they changed their minds tomorrow, I would not put my mods back at this point. The damage is done. I was made to feel extremely unwelcome, so I'm gone. My mods are never coming back here, no matter what.

 

I doubt that the staff will read this, and if they do, I doubt that they'll care. They have made it very clear that they have already made up their mind and that nothing will change it. More's the pity.

[KillerXav]

I use the Nexus for a while now (something like early 2010's) as a user, and I'm a bit mitigated about this situation... At first glance when reading the news - I'm not coming all the time so it was yesterday - I was like, wow why so much madness from some mod authors ? They'll just do a soft delete (archiving) and don't provide opt-in option to allow full working of the collections system. With a little hindsight, I kind of understand what making some authors crazy about it, even if it's not on every aspect.

About the collections system, I think it's a good idea for the simple fact that it could be a timesaver feature. When you see some advanced mod guide and you need like 3 days to make it work when you're not a mod expert, if i can do this in 10 minutes or even in 1 hour, it's great ! Even if I like to have a basic to mid-knowledge on how things works (for example, I already updated/modified some mods to my own convenience and for personal use), I prefer to spare this time to learn what I need instead of taking X hours clicking on links. Plus nobody force you to use the feature, if you want to stay a mod expert/elite you can do it the old fashion way. So I don't frankly understand why some authors are against this and want an opt-in/out option... There is everywhere on the internet mod lists/ guides that references your mods and I'm pretty sure they aren't asking you the permission to do so. It's just a reference to your mods, not a modpack with someone who might (for the worsts) or might not appropriate himself the ownership on those mods. If you've chosen a free platform to share your hard work, it's (at least I believe) for it to be available to everyone for free. So here, with a sort of packager feature around it or on any other websites as a simple guide, I don't quite see the difference since you'll still be credited for it.

 

Concerning the file deletion, on this point I think I understand the point of view of mods authors, and as a software engineer, I think that the staff should prioritize the owner of intellectual property aka the mod authors, so if they want the ability to remove their mods when they want they should have it (Or you put in your TOS the fact that uploading a mod gives partial or total ownership to Nexus, but I don't think this is what you really want because it will probably kill the Nexus). I don't know your website and database architecture but...I don't really get the explanation about database consistency, a file/archive whatever, should NEVER be part of an entity identification because it's subject to change. Just to illustrate, we have developed a SaaS platform with an archive upload and use system, and if the file is deleted this is not a big deal, the people that already downloaded it can still use it, but no new download is allowed without consistency issue, simply because the archive is an associated object and not part of the entity itself which have the meta-information's like name, last update, file object id...)

 

With a good architecture, the mod name, page link and version are visible, so information are preserved for consultation purposes) but nothing can be downloaded. It's not the best in terms of user experience but the responsibility to deal with dead files should be on the curator (collection creator) side, with a notification system and a marking on the collection indicating that it's deprecated and allowing him to find an alternative or update or what else. Again this is not the coolest way but you shouldn't alienate mod author's ability to decide if they still want to give access to their work.

Alternate way if you really want to ensure mods availability, is to ask consent of the mod author at mod registration to allow or not the mod files soft deletion for collections convenience and user-friendliness (this could be assimilate to an opt-in/out option to the collections feature, but not necessarily considering the above). Ultimately, there is the retribution possibility via the donation system or other, with markers being the number of downloads and the number of collections using the mod, but this one is a bit tricky and could lead to some greediness mentality.

 

Generally speaking, I don't think that it's a good idea to force things, especially when there is the possibility to do it in another way. I don't know the real impact and percentage of mod authors that has retired or plan to do so, but in fact this affair is altering the image of the Nexus and deprives the entire community of some of its authors. Maybe you should give you some room to find an other way to fix database issues and give a try to the collections system without the soft deletion, thus allowing mod authors to have less apprehension of the feature and you to have a better insight on how the functionality is used and how the community react and adapt itself to deleted mods in a collection and see at this moment if it's still an issue.

 

Well I was planning to do my last Skyrim run with the last version of Step LE after 4 years of waiting, but I'm not even sure I'll be able to do it correctly now...

[0z2y]

I use the Nexus for a while now (something like early 2010's) as a user, and I'm a bit mitigated about this situation... At first glance when reading the news - I'm not coming all the time so it was yesterday - I was like, wow why so much madness from some mod authors ? They'll just do a soft delete (archiving) and don't provide opt-in option to allow full working of the collections system. With a little hindsight, I kind of understand what making some authors crazy about it, even if it's not on every aspect.

About the collections system, I think it's a good idea for the simple fact that it could be a timesaver feature. When you see some advanced mod guide and you need like 3 days to make it work when you're not a mod expert, if i can do this in 10 minutes or even in 1 hour, it's great ! Even if I like to have a basic to mid-knowledge on how things works (for example, I already updated/modified some mods to my own convenience and for personal use), I prefer to spare this time to learn what I need instead of taking X hours clicking on links. Plus nobody force you to use the feature, if you want to stay a mod expert/elite you can do it the old fashion way. So I don't frankly understand why some authors are against this and want an opt-in/out option... There is everywhere on the internet mod lists/ guides that references your mods and I'm pretty sure they aren't asking you the permission to do so. It's just a reference to your mods, not a modpack with someone who might (for the worsts) or might not appropriate himself the ownership on those mods. If you've chosen a free platform to share your hard work, it's (at least I believe) for it to be available to everyone for free. So here, with a sort of packager feature around it or on any other websites as a simple guide, I don't quite see the difference since you'll still be credited for it.

Most Mod Authors aren't against the Collections.

 

Concerning the file deletion, on this point I think I understand the point of view of mods authors, and as a software engineer, I think that the staff should prioritize the owner of intellectual property aka the mod authors, so if they want the ability to remove their mods when they want they should have it (Or you put in your TOS the fact that uploading a mod gives partial or total ownership to Nexus, but I don't think this is what you really want because it will probably kill the Nexus). I don't know your website and database architecture but...I don't really get the explanation about database consistency, a file/archive whatever, should NEVER be part of an entity identification because it's subject to change. Just to illustrate, we have developed a SaaS platform with an archive upload and use system, and if the file is deleted this is not a big deal, the people that already downloaded it can still use it, but no new download is allowed without consistency issue, simply because the archive is an associated object and not part of the entity itself which have the meta-information's like name, last update, file object id...)

 

But Nexus did changed their TOS.

And here is what most Mod Authors are against: It's has been their right to remove their work whenever they want, either to update to a newer version or because the had assets that they no longer have the right to use amongst other situations. Bottom line, Mod Authors should retain the right to delete their work and that is being taken away from them.

[CrEaToXx]

I am not willing to just hand complete control of everything that I have made over to someone else.

 

It is actually shared control. You get to keep the original, no? They've obtained the right to do with the copy as they please.

 

If I buy "insert any medium in here"(a CD for example), the original owner has absolutely no right to ask me to delete the copy, that he willingly agreed on sharing(selling). The only difference being, we shared our work for free. That makes as actually quite stupid, or not, because there we cycle back to the EULA argument, that prohibits us from selling any content we've created with any of the game developers creation tools. So the only real solution to that issue would have been not to start modding to begin with.

 

I know that sounds shitty, but that's what it is if you willingly agree to share your content for free on the internet. You were supposed to sell licenses of your product, for compensation that new users have the right to use your content under given consensus(not copying, redistributing etc.). But that you can't do according to Bethesda EULA agreement. So again, starting to mod a game was an unwise decision if you ever felt the need to share it with the internet.

 

However. I came here for another reason. Reading how the Nexus is trying to uncouple the forums from the Nexus file share platform, does anyone have any inside if there are plans to cease the forums existence in future? I feel like they are on a general path to update the whole platform to more modern standards.

[LeelooMinai]

âž If I buy "insert any medium in here"(a CD for example), the original owner has absolutely no right to ask me to delete the copy, that he willingly agreed on sharing(selling). The only difference being, we shared our work for free. That makes as actually quite stupid, or not, because there we cycle back to the EULA argument, that prohibits us from selling any content we've created with any of the game developers creation tools. So the only real solution to that issue would have been not to start modding to begin with.â

 

You arenât allowed to âžshareâ your bought CD with 29 Million users. O.o Your example doesnât make sense.

[Guest deleted34304850]

 

I am not willing to just hand complete control of everything that I have made over to someone else.

 

It is actually shared control. You get to keep the original, no? They've obtained the right to do with the copy as they please.

 

If I buy "insert any medium in here"(a CD for example), the original owner has absolutely no right to ask me to delete the copy, that he willingly agreed on sharing(selling). The only difference being, we shared our work for free. That makes as actually quite stupid, or not, because there we cycle back to the EULA argument, that prohibits us from selling any content we've created with any of the game developers creation tools. So the only real solution to that issue would have been not to start modding to begin with.

 

I know that sounds shitty, but that's what it is if you willingly agree to share your content for free on the internet. You were supposed to sell licenses of your product, for compensation that new users have the right to use your content under given consensus(not copying, redistributing etc.). But that you can't do according to Bethesda EULA agreement. So again, starting to mod a game was an unwise decision if you ever felt the need to share it with the internet.

 

However. I came here for another reason. Reading how the Nexus is trying to uncouple the forums from the Nexus file share platform, does anyone have any inside if there are plans to cease the forums existence in future? I feel like they are on a general path to update the whole platform to more modern standards.

 

a mod isnt a CD so your analogy stops right there. everything after it is bollocks.

[HeyYou]

 

I am not willing to just hand complete control of everything that I have made over to someone else.

 

It is actually shared control. You get to keep the original, no? They've obtained the right to do with the copy as they please.

 

If I buy "insert any medium in here"(a CD for example), the original owner has absolutely no right to ask me to delete the copy, that he willingly agreed on sharing(selling). The only difference being, we shared our work for free. That makes as actually quite stupid, or not, because there we cycle back to the EULA argument, that prohibits us from selling any content we've created with any of the game developers creation tools. So the only real solution to that issue would have been not to start modding to begin with.

 

I know that sounds shitty, but that's what it is if you willingly agree to share your content for free on the internet. You were supposed to sell licenses of your product, for compensation that new users have the right to use your content under given consensus(not copying, redistributing etc.). But that you can't do according to Bethesda EULA agreement. So again, starting to mod a game was an unwise decision if you ever felt the need to share it with the internet.

 

However. I came here for another reason. Reading how the Nexus is trying to uncouple the forums from the Nexus file share platform, does anyone have any inside if there are plans to cease the forums existence in future? I feel like they are on a general path to update the whole platform to more modern standards.

 

I really don't see Nexus doing away with the forums. Ever. Generates a fair bit of traffic, (ad revenue) and I do believe that comments on mod pages are also tied into the forum software.

 

As for going to 'something more modern'...... You mean, like beth did, and essentially killed their community with the crappy software they picked, twice?? "Modern" does NOT mean "Better". My bank recently updated their online banking software, and quite honestly, the new platform flat out sucks. In the interests of looking 'more modern', they have seriously compromised the utility of it. I hate it. And I am not the only one. But, they won't change it...... Typical.

[CrEaToXx]

 

 

I really don't see Nexus doing away with the forums. Ever. Generates a fair bit of traffic, (ad revenue) and I do believe that comments on mod pages are also tied into the forum software.

As for going to 'something more modern'...... You mean, like beth did, and essentially killed their community with the crappy software they picked, twice?? "Modern" does NOT mean "Better". My bank recently updated their online banking software, and quite honestly, the new platform flat out sucks. In the interests of looking 'more modern', they have seriously compromised the utility of it. I hate it. And I am not the only one. But, they won't change it...... Typical.

 

I'd love to see the demographics forums vs database. I feel there was way more activity in the forums in the past, at least if you take only Bethesda games forums into account. More and more I get the feeling forums are outdated, even if they are up to date with modern standards. There's a lot of other platform variants that show way better functionality.

 

By modern I meant something like "away from forum software" in general. What other use do forums have vs f.e. Discord or Reddit, other than archiving? There's also YT and Twitch, and not to forget Steam. In terms of support Discord is superior. Hell, even Emailing is. I nowadays often feel forums are just used because of traditional reasons.

[HeyYou]

 

I really don't see Nexus doing away with the forums. Ever. Generates a fair bit of traffic, (ad revenue) and I do believe that comments on mod pages are also tied into the forum software.

As for going to 'something more modern'...... You mean, like beth did, and essentially killed their community with the crappy software they picked, twice?? "Modern" does NOT mean "Better". My bank recently updated their online banking software, and quite honestly, the new platform flat out sucks. In the interests of looking 'more modern', they have seriously compromised the utility of it. I hate it. And I am not the only one. But, they won't change it...... Typical.

 

I'd love to see the demographics forums vs database. I feel there was way more activity in the forums in the past, at least if you take only Bethesda games forums into account. More and more I get the feeling forums are outdated, even if they are up to date with modern standards. There's a lot of other platform variants that show way better functionality.

 

By modern I meant something like "away from forum software" in general. What other use do forums have vs f.e. Discord or Reddit, other than archiving? There's also YT and Twitch, and not to forget Steam. In terms of support Discord is superior. Hell, even Emailing is. I nowadays often feel forums are just used because of traditional reasons.

 

Forums provide a relatively permanent record, something discord/other chat clients do not. For the purposes of a gaming forum, that offers user-based support for said games, forums are vastly superior to any chat client. Beth moving all of their support, etc, to discord is, in my opinion, a stupid move. What used to be a wealth of archived information, will soon be gone, and all that utility along with it.

 

Maybe it seems like the 'fashionable trend' at the moment, but, that does NOT mean it's a 'good idea'.

 

But, yeah. I am sure the mods database sees much more traffic than the forum. That does not mean the forums are not serving a useful purpose.

[JWolf1672]

 

If I buy "insert any medium in here"(a CD for example), the original owner has absolutely no right to ask me to delete the copy, that he willingly agreed on sharing(selling).

 

That's a poor example. If you want to use a better one, nexus is not the buyer or end user, who asking to destroy their copy would be silly. Nexus is the distribution platform and you can easily find examples of copyright owners asking or revoking distribution for a distributor (example, artists removing their works from Spotify)