showler Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 it's not the greatest idea when someone who doesn't have much of an understanding about load order puts some stuff in a pack together and calls it a day.This weirdly pervasive argument that Collections are "by morons, for morons" is very confusing. Why would someone with a badly put together load order want to publish it for others to use? Why would even the newest user trying out modding for the first time look at a list of available Collections and say "I'll take the one with the worst rating and negative reviews"? The best built Collections will rise to the top and become the most popular. The best version of a Collection will almost certainly be the most used. That's how it always works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 it's not the greatest idea when someone who doesn't have much of an understanding about load order puts some stuff in a pack together and calls it a day.This weirdly pervasive argument that Collections are "by morons, for morons" is very confusing. Why would someone with a badly put together load order want to publish it for others to use? Why would even the newest user trying out modding for the first time look at a list of available Collections and say "I'll take the one with the worst rating and negative reviews"? The best built Collections will rise to the top and become the most popular. The best version of a Collection will almost certainly be the most used. That's how it always works. Why do some folks upload broken mods, and then abandon them? Folks upload some odd and strange stuff. Not all of it works. Some if it is quite broken. Collections are going to be the same. Some will be pretty good, others will be awesome, but, there will also be those that are severely broken. If the folks using that collection bother to ask the list author for support, then others will see that the collection has issues, and won't download it. Of course, the folks that can't be bothered to read, and are just "ooooo, shiny"..... and download it anyway, will discover that things don't always 'just work'. It's nothing new under the sun. And of course, you have the folks that will download a collection, then decide they want to add 'other stuff' to it, which breaks it. And whom do they blame for their own personal failure? The author of the last mod they installed...... Which is also SOP for a fair few users...... Collections CAN be good, but, if you have a collection that includes broken mods, you will have a broken collection. And since collections are going to be 'forever available', folks will continuously be downloading a broken collection, even after a mod author fixes his mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WileCoyote68 Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 Just as anyone can upload mods to Nexus, anyone will be able to create collections. Regardless of whether it's a good idea, even novice users will try their hand at collections. That is as certain as the Amen in a prayer. So CrashRakashe's argument is quite valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showler Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 But, again, the Collections will have ratings clearly visible that will tell users whether they work well or not. Unless you also assume that people will lie on the ratings or that absolutely everyone will simply not bother to rate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 But, again, the Collections will have ratings clearly visible that will tell users whether they work well or not. Unless you also assume that people will lie on the ratings or that absolutely everyone will simply not bother to rate them.Ratings? Yeah, that worked just great over at bethnet..... To the point the system was scrapped. And endorsements? Presently, right about 1% of downloaders actually endorse mods. So, yeah, collections are going to be just like mods. If you don't read the comments, you don't know what its potential issues are. Nothing different. Your argument is meaningless. A collection with a broken mod included, is going to be broken, unless the list author updates his list, when the author of the problematic mod updates his mod. Just like it happens with individual mods. But now, the mod author can't delete the broken version, and if the list author doesn't update his list, his collection will remain broken. Why is that so difficult for you to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WileCoyote68 Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 The availability of ratings does not change the basic message that there will be problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showler Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 You all just base your complaints on the assumption that everyone involved is stupider than you are. It's absurd. I mean, we have problems now. What do you think is more likely to cause an issue. A brand new user throwing together three dozen popular mods with no idea how to make them work together, or a brand new user downloading a well-rated Collection put together by someone who knows what they are doing? But you just assume they are going to download the first piece of trash Collection put together by an idiot despite having to go to page 68 of the Collections listing to find something that broken. You're assuming the worst possible event is the most likely event because it suits your narrative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WileCoyote68 Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 Now you impressively show your true face. Before you make accusations, you should make sure that you can prove them and that they are not just based on your own conjecture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashRakashe Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 (edited) You all just base your complaints on the assumption that everyone involved is stupider than you are. It's absurd. I mean, we have problems now. What do you think is more likely to cause an issue. A brand new user throwing together three dozen popular mods with no idea how to make them work together, or a brand new user downloading a well-rated Collection put together by someone who knows what they are doing? But you just assume they are going to download the first piece of trash Collection put together by an idiot despite having to go to page 68 of the Collections listing to find something that broken. You're assuming the worst possible event is the most likely event because it suits your narrative. Dude, two words for you: Stinitar Gaming. It's happened before, and it will happen again. What we are worried about has, in part, happened already and has caused a mess we're still dealing with to this day. Now, that issue will be multiplied and automated. It's got nothing to do with people being stupid but people being new to this. And every new game bring new people in. Be them user or authors. New users don't know where to start, and just because there's a good list doesn't mean that will be the first one they come across. I was lucky enough to already know YouTube channels like Gopher before I started adding mods to my games. I had a place to start, and now that I've been doing this for years I have an idea of what to do when I pick up a game for the first (I got Oblivion and Morrowind for PC this year). Someone who decided to try the other games after playing Fallout 76 isn't going to have the same general idea of what to look for as the rest of us. It comes down to experience, not intelligence. Edited July 23, 2021 by CrashRakashe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 You all just base your complaints on the assumption that everyone involved is stupider than you are. It's absurd. I mean, we have problems now. What do you think is more likely to cause an issue. A brand new user throwing together three dozen popular mods with no idea how to make them work together, or a brand new user downloading a well-rated Collection put together by someone who knows what they are doing? But you just assume they are going to download the first piece of trash Collection put together by an idiot despite having to go to page 68 of the Collections listing to find something that broken. You're assuming the worst possible event is the most likely event because it suits your narrative.You are totally missing the point. It has been explained to you multiple times, yet you still don't seem to get it. You are basing your assumptions that anyone using a collection is going to look at ratings. Read the description, etc, when he already have DECADES of evidence that proves FAR too many folks DON'T. You are, quite simply, a lost cause. You go right ahead and play cheerleader for Nexus. Watch what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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