"Cyclical" Ruleset that isn't (in my opinion) cyclical

[Neanderhead]

Hey all, I would like some help with my custom groups please.

 

I am running latest version of vortex managing 237 active plugins for fallout 4 on windows 10.

 

If someone can explain how the groups I have set up are cyclical would be great. I have spent a couple of hours trying to set up the groups and then sorting my mods into their respective groupings as I didn't like the default groupings from vortex. I have tried linking the custom groups after "creation club" and then after "dynamic patches". Every time I remove mods from my custom groups more mods get the "cyclical ruleset" issue, I want to use my groups not Vortex's, it is frustrating as I cannot then use F4edit to make patches and whatnot for my mods unless I remove the cyclical error.

 

 

 

This is how I have arranged my group order

 

 

 

This is the report I get.

[Tannin42]

You don't have a cycle between groups, you have a cycle between mods, the group assignments are only part of that.

 

It's possible that there is a masterlist rule between two of these mods that can't be fulfilled because of the group assignments.

When you over over the orange arrows (-->) it will tell you why it has to put them in that order.

 

In general it's a really really really bad idea to customize these groups to this degree.

really really bad.

Load Ordering is exclusively there for the engine to avoid plugin conflicts causing crashes or quests to fail and so on.

The moment you (ab)use LO to make the list more maintainable for you as a user, you're basically begging for problems like these because LOOT is solely trying to prevent actual ingame problem and having a "stable" order and having a "pretty" order are opposing goals.

[Guest deleted34304850]

Hey all, I would like some help with my custom groups please.

 

I am running latest version of vortex managing 237 active plugins for fallout 4 on windows 10.

 

If someone can explain how the groups I have set up are cyclical would be great. I have spent a couple of hours trying to set up the groups and then sorting my mods into their respective groupings as I didn't like the default groupings from vortex. I have tried linking the custom groups after "creation club" and then after "dynamic patches". Every time I remove mods from my custom groups more mods get the "cyclical ruleset" issue, I want to use my groups not Vortex's, it is frustrating as I cannot then use F4edit to make patches and whatnot for my mods unless I remove the cyclical error.

 

Group Order.png

 

This is how I have arranged my group order

 

Report.png

 

This is the report I get.

got to say, that's one of the best/worst group maps i've ever seen. all that time it took you to do it and it's 100% irrelevant. sheesh. still, i bet it's better than playing the game, huh?

[AugustaCalidia]

Hey all, I would like some help with my custom groups please.

 

The best advice I can offer you is to dump all of your custom groups and to start over. Stick to the LOOT groups, which are perfectly adequate for almost all load order tasks. In those cases where custom groups may be needed, one or two at most are probably sufficient.

 

In the years that I've worked with LOOT (integrated into Vortex) and Fallout 4, I've never had to create a custom group. My Fallout 4 games typically involve about 200 active plugins. On about a half dozen occasions I've needed to make group assignments, and the available LOOT groups were all that I required.

Edited August 14, 2021 by AugustaCalidia

[Guest deleted34304850]

this issue reminded me somewhat of an issue in the vortex discussion forum where the OP wanted a 1:1 relationship between the plugin and its associated mod. try as i might, i could not get the OP to understand that plugin group <> mod category, and the end result was - they broke their game.

 

for the life of me, I have no idea why people do this. i've never seen any modding guide that suggests anyone put each plugin into a unique group because "reasons".

 

OP - to save yourself frustration, undo everything you've done. If a plugin is in the default group - leave it.

if you have a mod where the author suggests that the plugin needs to "load last" - well - aside from the fact that only one plugin can ever be last, all you need to do is make sure that whatever the plugin is, it loads AFTER everything in default so it's near to if not exactly last in your load order.

 

that, pretty much - is it.

 

do that - play the game.

 

trust that your mod manager knows better than you (and the evidence of your pictures above justifies this).

 

modding is simple - until someone comes along and makes it complex. don't be the person who makes it complex. especially if you can't get yourself out of your self-created pickle.

[Neanderhead]

thank you all for the advice you have provided.

 

I was simply trying to follow a guide on nexus mods regarding load order and wanted to try and resolve some issues i had. (the guide is the load order survival guide document)

 

The advice seemed to be that creating personalised groups that make more sense to me was better than the stuff the mod manager uses.

 

I have to admit with my mod load order leaving vortex to do the sorting for me in some cases breaks the game, for example: -

 

Consistent power armour overhaul, brotherhood power armour overhaul, some assembly required, pamap and a couple of other power armour mods would not load in the order required to get them to play nicely. I have to manually order them to get them to play nice.

 

I have in the end just removed my custom groups and made personal patched instead to force the changes i want.

 

This post can be considered closed.

 

Again thanks for the advice, very much appreciated.

[HadToRegister]

thank you all for the advice you have provided.

 

I was simply trying to follow a guide on nexus mods regarding load order and wanted to try and resolve some issues i had. (the guide is the load order survival guide document)

 

The advice seemed to be that creating personalised groups that make more sense to me was better than the stuff the mod manager uses.

 

I have to admit with my mod load order leaving vortex to do the sorting for me in some cases breaks the game, for example: -

 

Consistent power armour overhaul, brotherhood power armour overhaul, some assembly required, pamap and a couple of other power armour mods would not load in the order required to get them to play nicely. I have to manually order them to get them to play nice.

 

I have in the end just removed my custom groups and made personal patched instead to force the changes i want.

 

This post can be considered closed.

 

Again thanks for the advice, very much appreciated.

 

 

Keywords here are "Guide" and "Force"

 

Don't follow Load Order guides, they are at best, "Opinions" as to what the Guide-Maker thinks is a perfect load order.

 

By using FORCE, you are going against the LOOT rules, and not letting Vortex do it's job.

 

It literally takes me about 15 minutes to eliminate conflicts and get my load orde4r sorted because I let Vortex do all of the work.

 

Now, with my load order of 386 mods for Skyrim SE, I had to do MORE than normal (Making rules etc), but an average Load Order should take you little to no effort whatsoever to get working.

 

As long as Vortex isn't complaining about a COnflict, then Vortex is happy.

[Guest deleted34304850]

can you share the guide you followed? i'd like to give it a look.