Ukrainian War: Prelude to Worse?

[Mktavish]

 

 

 

 

1. i'm shocked that people who could and should know better could not show more than ignorance und try to find even the most studpid arguments to support or at least tolerate a ww2 like nazi massacre by russia or even worse.

i do not understand such people.

 

2.it is not about the question to chose one side in this case. do what you want. to believe russian propaganda and the laughable try to dehumanize a nation as nazis and to ignore them as humans as you and me including women and children while the ukrainian president is a jude and and even the last ukrainian holocaust whitnesses is slaughtered by russian troups. this seems even worse and more nazi like from the russian side as the holocaust in ww2! who acts as a the nazi and with inhumanity here ? At least the dumbest should realize that something must be wrong with putins censored nazi propaganda and all his stupid tries to cover his bloody war as a "military operation" within russia. we all know the truth about this "operation" and the censoring.

 

I can see only one aggressive party and the other defends just its own territory. so there is nothing to chose for any well informed human.

What putin tries to sell as a liberation is obviously without doubt the opposite and everyone with open eyes can be witness or can close his eyes and ignore. this war is about russian and putins ignorance, russian nazis and free will of the ukrainian nation and not about ukrainian nazis which - no doubt - exists like russian nazis.

 

3. the defenders are urged by the russians to be the good guys and that does not mean every singe human is but you can not seriously blame ukraine or nato for that problem.

 

4. pick what you want because the truth is obvious for the whole world, including china, russia and belarus and does not need to be explained to any not brain washed human being, especially not with the most stupid arguments of a censored russian propaganda machine.

 

 

Just a suggestion of where to file the sharp edges off your words :ninja:

 

you are right, i could be calmer. sorry if i failed. my post is not meant to hurt anyone personally. but what hurts me so much is the obvious ignorance and indifference regarding dayly inhumanity and dying people in the ukraine and putin does not stop it immediately. who can anyone act so unethical. if i don't want such a treatment for myself i can not tolerate it by others like it is nothing! am i so wrong just to be a little empathic even if i just can help with spending some money?

 

 

I see you really do have a lot of emotional investment ... And not telling you not to ... just seek wisdom and temperance ; )

[ScytheBearer]

 

 

History repeats itself all over...

 

Maybe stop looking at history ... and look at the here and now prevalence .

 

How often is what you just said repeated nearly Verbatim these last few years ... decade ?!?

What is the essence and projected outcome were MORE people to adopt and repeat its sentiment ?

Would there really be a magical Kumbaya moment , once enough people decide to destroy the current human interactive network ?

 

 

Any society or culture which ignores history is doomed to repeat it, and deserves too.

 

Failure to learn from our collective mistakes is just stupid. ignoring the facts and pretending mistakes haven't been made is even stupider.

 

[Mktavish]

Well sure ... although those lessons of the past are only useful when there is enough awareness of the present and how it would apply to it.

 

But what about marinating in nostalgia for the past while ruminating in disdain for the present ?

 

Or is that a mistake that has not born fruit enough to mark it down in history as something to learn from yet ?

[HeyYou]

Well sure ... although those lessons of the past are only useful when there is enough awareness of the present and how it would apply to it.

 

But what about marinating in nostalgia for the past while ruminating in disdain for the present ?

 

Or is that a mistake that has not born fruit enough to mark it down in history as something to learn from yet ?

Well, a fair few folks are aware of the situation, and a significant percentage of them are drawing parallels to Germany in the 30's......

 

If one of your friends calls you an elephant, don't worry about it.

If two of your friends call you an elephant, you might wanna be concerned.

If three of your friends call you an elephant.... Buy a bag of peanuts....

 

We are at the bag of peanuts stage here for Putin. Trouble is, just as it was in the 30's, no one really has the political will to take decisive steps to discourage his behavior. Of course, the difference here being... Putin has Nukes, and is quite capable of using them.

[Mktavish]

 

Well sure ... although those lessons of the past are only useful when there is enough awareness of the present and how it would apply to it.

 

But what about marinating in nostalgia for the past while ruminating in disdain for the present ?

 

Or is that a mistake that has not born fruit enough to mark it down in history as something to learn from yet ?

Well, a fair few folks are aware of the situation, and a significant percentage of them are drawing parallels to Germany in the 30's......

 

If one of your friends calls you an elephant, don't worry about it.

If two of your friends call you an elephant, you might wanna be concerned.

If three of your friends call you an elephant.... Buy a bag of peanuts....

 

We are at the bag of peanuts stage here for Putin. Trouble is, just as it was in the 30's, no one really has the political will to take decisive steps to discourage his behavior. Of course, the difference here being... Putin has Nukes, and is quite capable of using them.

 

 

But what is the use of drawing the parallel ? What does it produce in the here and now ?

And if all these people are drawing the parallel ... certainly Putin would be aware of it also.

Thereby it could be intentional ... and why would he do that ?

 

I'm certainly not saying there is no value in history ... just that it seems these days to be a useful tool in obscuring the present.

[HeyYou]

 

 

Well sure ... although those lessons of the past are only useful when there is enough awareness of the present and how it would apply to it.

 

But what about marinating in nostalgia for the past while ruminating in disdain for the present ?

 

Or is that a mistake that has not born fruit enough to mark it down in history as something to learn from yet ?

Well, a fair few folks are aware of the situation, and a significant percentage of them are drawing parallels to Germany in the 30's......

 

If one of your friends calls you an elephant, don't worry about it.

If two of your friends call you an elephant, you might wanna be concerned.

If three of your friends call you an elephant.... Buy a bag of peanuts....

 

We are at the bag of peanuts stage here for Putin. Trouble is, just as it was in the 30's, no one really has the political will to take decisive steps to discourage his behavior. Of course, the difference here being... Putin has Nukes, and is quite capable of using them.

 

 

But what is the use of drawing the parallel ? What does it produce in the here and now ?

And if all these people are drawing the parallel ... certainly Putin would be aware of it also.

Thereby it could be intentional ... and why would he do that ?

 

I'm certainly not saying there is no value in history ... just that it seems these days to be a useful tool in obscuring the present.

 

Putin doesn't see it that way. (maybe...) He sees himself as 'rescuing' the poor people of Ukraine from their evil overlords... Or something equally as silly. So, it really doesn't matter to him what other people are saying, so far as he is concerned, he is in the right....

 

As for the rest of us, we can look back at history, see what we did back then, and the results of those actions. (or, lack thereof, as the case may be.) Appeasement obviously didn't work. But, will we repeat the mistakes of the past? Sure looks like it.

[Mktavish]

 

 

 

Well sure ... although those lessons of the past are only useful when there is enough awareness of the present and how it would apply to it.

 

But what about marinating in nostalgia for the past while ruminating in disdain for the present ?

 

Or is that a mistake that has not born fruit enough to mark it down in history as something to learn from yet ?

Well, a fair few folks are aware of the situation, and a significant percentage of them are drawing parallels to Germany in the 30's......

 

If one of your friends calls you an elephant, don't worry about it.

If two of your friends call you an elephant, you might wanna be concerned.

If three of your friends call you an elephant.... Buy a bag of peanuts....

 

We are at the bag of peanuts stage here for Putin. Trouble is, just as it was in the 30's, no one really has the political will to take decisive steps to discourage his behavior. Of course, the difference here being... Putin has Nukes, and is quite capable of using them.

 

 

But what is the use of drawing the parallel ? What does it produce in the here and now ?

And if all these people are drawing the parallel ... certainly Putin would be aware of it also.

Thereby it could be intentional ... and why would he do that ?

 

I'm certainly not saying there is no value in history ... just that it seems these days to be a useful tool in obscuring the present.

 

Putin doesn't see it that way. (maybe...) He sees himself as 'rescuing' the poor people of Ukraine from their evil overlords... Or something equally as silly. So, it really doesn't matter to him what other people are saying, so far as he is concerned, he is in the right....

 

As for the rest of us, we can look back at history, see what we did back then, and the results of those actions. (or, lack thereof, as the case may be.) Appeasement obviously didn't work. But, will we repeat the mistakes of the past? Sure looks like it.

 

 

OKIES ... we have full knowledge of Hitler ... so what do we do ?

D Day ?

 

You don't know what Putin is thinking ... everybody seems to think he is stupid .

I say that is stupid ... and putin may very well be controlling what you think.

 

But can you guess why Putin would want people to view him as Hitler ?

[ScytheBearer]

Putin's inner circle is down to half a dozen (at most) senior members of Russia's power elite who are telling Putin exactly what Putin wants to hear. Not the truth. Not reality. Just what Putin wants to hear. And what does Putin want to hear? Just about anything which flatters his ego, encourages his fantasies and panders to his delusions.

 

So what is Putin thinking? I do not know. But all the evidence tells me that what Putin is thinking is based on what Putin wants, and not necessarily truth, facts, or reason.

 

Hitler did not think himself to be a man whose ideologies were anathema to the better part of humanity. Neither does Putin. Putin does not care how the world thinks of him, only how he thinks of himself. Both Hitler and Putin fit the definition of narcissism.

 

If Putin is controlling what I think, then he is doing a piss poor job of shaping my thinking. My thinking is in direct opposition to what Putin is as a human being, and his actions on the world stage. If Putin is controlling the thinking of anyone, it would more likely be he is controlling the thinking those who defend him and excuse his actions.

 

As for what history has taught us about Hitler and his annexation of other countries, history taught us that we do not stand by and ignore these actions. We do not attempt to appease the aggressors. The only thing which stopped Hitler was aggressive opposition, aka WWII.

 

The wild card here is that history has also demonstrated the devastating effects of Nuclear Weapons. We know that Putin is quite able and willing to use Nuclear Weapons to get his way. And that scares everyone. And history has taught us that fear makes leaders and nations timid. History has also taught us that the time to confront and stop Putin was after he annexed Chimera. But the world did exactly what the world did when Hitler annexed Austria. Virtually nothing, because of paralyzing fear.

 

So the world tries to keep the battle over Ukraine to a conventional ground war, fought by the governments involved. The world tries to keep any outside involvement to a bare minimum, only helping the Ukraine Government in the least intrusive ways possible. The world tries to defeat Putin and Russia without sparking WWIII. But alas, it is also known that if Russia and Putin lose too much, Putin's ego could make Ukraine the end of humanity. And if that should happen, you can once again draw forth your soapbox, mount it proudly, and tell us all about the horrible waste of time which is studying history and the glorious benefits of ignoring the lessons of the past.

[Guest deleted34304850]

 

 

Well sure ... although those lessons of the past are only useful when there is enough awareness of the present and how it would apply to it.

 

But what about marinating in nostalgia for the past while ruminating in disdain for the present ?

 

Or is that a mistake that has not born fruit enough to mark it down in history as something to learn from yet ?

Well, a fair few folks are aware of the situation, and a significant percentage of them are drawing parallels to Germany in the 30's......

 

If one of your friends calls you an elephant, don't worry about it.

If two of your friends call you an elephant, you might wanna be concerned.

If three of your friends call you an elephant.... Buy a bag of peanuts....

 

We are at the bag of peanuts stage here for Putin. Trouble is, just as it was in the 30's, no one really has the political will to take decisive steps to discourage his behavior. Of course, the difference here being... Putin has Nukes, and is quite capable of using them.

 

 

But what is the use of drawing the parallel ? What does it produce in the here and now ?

And if all these people are drawing the parallel ... certainly Putin would be aware of it also.

Thereby it could be intentional ... and why would he do that ?

 

I'm certainly not saying there is no value in history ... just that it seems these days to be a useful tool in obscuring the present.

 

forgive the bluntness of this question, but i am compelled to ask it - are you being deliberately stupid to offer a contraritan point in some weird "let's keep this discussion going" stance, or are you genuinely that thick?

[HeyYou]

Putin's inner circle is down to half a dozen (at most) senior members of Russia's power elite who are telling Putin exactly what Putin wants to hear. Not the truth. Not reality. Just what Putin wants to hear. And what does Putin want to hear? Just about anything which flatters his ego, encourages his fantasies and panders to his delusions.

 

So what is Putin thinking? I do not know. But all the evidence tells me that what Putin is thinking is based on what Putin wants, and not necessarily truth, facts, or reason.

 

Hitler did not think himself to be a man whose ideologies were anathema to the better part of humanity. Neither does Putin. Putin does not care how the world thinks of him, only how he thinks of himself. Both Hitler and Putin fit the definition of narcissism.

 

If Putin is controlling what I think, then he is doing a piss poor job of shaping my thinking. My thinking is in direct opposition to what Putin is as a human being, and his actions on the world stage. If Putin is controlling the thinking of anyone, it would more likely be he is controlling the thinking those who defend him and excuse his actions.

 

As for what history has taught us about Hitler and his annexation of other countries, history taught us that we do not stand by and ignore these actions. We do not attempt to appease the aggressors. The only thing which stopped Hitler was aggressive opposition, aka WWII.

 

The wild card here is that history has also demonstrated the devastating effects of Nuclear Weapons. We know that Putin is quite able and willing to use Nuclear Weapons to get his way. And that scares everyone. And history has taught us that fear makes leaders and nations timid. History has also taught us that the time to confront and stop Putin was after he annexed Chimera. But the world did exactly what the world did when Hitler annexed Austria. Virtually nothing, because of paralyzing fear.

 

So the world tries to keep the battle over Ukraine to a conventional ground war, fought by the governments involved. The world tries to keep any outside involvement to a bare minimum, only helping the Ukraine Government in the least intrusive ways possible. The world tries to defeat Putin and Russia without sparking WWIII. But alas, it is also known that if Russia and Putin lose too much, Putin's ego could make Ukraine the end of humanity. And if that should happen, you can once again draw forth your soapbox, mount it proudly, and tell us all about the horrible waste of time which is studying history and the glorious benefits of ignoring the lessons of the past.

I think I am going to mark this day on my calendar..... I completely agree with everything you have to say here. :)