Abortion

[nzdbox]

I believe that abortion should be an option available to all mothers. It is then their choice to kill their unborn child or not.

I do not think that it should be removed as a right. I do not think it is fair that a bunch of guys in black suits should decide what a pregnant mother must do with her body. The decision should be her's, not of the talking heads.

Think about women that are victims of rape, and then get a child who's father is a rapist unknown to the mother. What will the mother do then? Live with a living memory of a bad moment?

[tyjet3]

I believe abortion should be just accepted to society. I do feel it can be wrong though. That is why I think abortion should ONLY be done in the first three months and that is it. Some of the stuff that Kerry agreed with in 2003 sickens me.

Partial Birth

[Adras]

btw- Any bets on how much more the US economy will fall into debt?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Check out this site: http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

[Faust870]

Really, it doesn't matter what thinks about abortion, except for the actual women that have had to decide whether or not they should have one. Everyone says that women who have abortions are murders... for the love of god.. do you think these women actually really wanted to do this? Think of how hard it must be for them to go through with something like that... don't you think in reality they have suffered enough... why should they be branded as killers ontop of it all?

 

I'm not sure the exact number of months, but I believe its 3... for 3(?) months a fetus can not live on its own, it relies souly on the mother. If a women wishes to have an abortion in that time frame, its ok... It cannot survive without the mother, so in a sense its not really even alive... its, like a tumor (don't flame me for saying its like a tumor, it's just an anology...I know its not a polite thing to say)..After the 3(?) month period, it is able to survive without the mother for a certain amount of time (however there is still a 0% chance of survival outside of the mother)

 

See a woman is faced with 3 choices for an "unwanted pregnancy"

 

1. Giving birth, and putting in a orphanage... this could seriously damage a child, and the mother... knowing that you have a mother/child out there and don't know who it is... is probably going to be painful unless your a heartless SOB..

 

2. Giving birth and keeping it... if the mother isn't ready for a child, this could ruin 2.. a teenager that could have had a good future has a child and has to drop out of school to raise her kid... this isn't going to go to well for either of them...

 

3. An abortion, it may be hard to do... but it may be the best choice... In most cases, unwanted pregnancies occur in teenagers... this way they may actually beable to finish highschool, go on and go to university/college, and do what they always wanted to do... and than settle down and have kids...

 

I just think that people should quit bashing people that have abortions.... put yourself in their shoes, you probably have no idea what its like...

[Chaosmaker]

Abortion is not right in my mind in anyway. In no way is anybody givin the right to take anothers life born or not born, child or random person.

[Ancalagon]

The way I look at abortion is the way one regards a two-sided blade. It isn't right and it isn't wrong, it cuts both ways. Both sides of the argument have valid points (if one ignores the theological and ideaological debate). If you focus on the question of choice, it becomes very muddled. Abortion is a good idea, in that hypothetically if a woman is raped, and as a result of that unwilling sexual act she becomes pregnant. If she is with child, then she should be able to make the choice of whether or not to have that baby, if it is the product of a sexual assault?

 

On the other hand, if a twenty something year old girl has sex with her boyfriend, lover, etc. and gets pregnant as a result (protection or not), should she be able to get an abortion even though she had sex knowing full well the consequences of her acts? That the act of sex is the act of reproduction and procreation and that babies are made as a result of that?. Would the girl's age matter? Should she be tried differently if she was sixteen? Thirteen? The very fact that she is a minor, and yet is engaing in an adult act begs the question of when exactly does a person become an adult? What is the exact age of adulthood? The answer of course, is that the age of adulthood is arbitrary, and we assign specific .

Should she take responsibility for her actions by having the baby? Or should she get the abortion and not learn the full lesson and experience the weight of responsibility that giving birth carries with it? Using abortion this way is using the easy way out.

Conversly, you could also argue that the young couple cannot afford to raise the baby because they lack the money. So not having financial stability (and not having the baby) saves them (and the unborn child) the trouble of living a life of poverty and eventually becoming homeless, welfare dead weight, or a criminal. And even then, as another alternative, they could have the baby and send it to a family who cannot have a baby because the man or woman is sterile, etc.

 

Still more, we have the question of whether or not we are committing murder, by killing a sentient(?) being. This brings up the scrutiny of our defenition of "sentient" and when exactly is a fetus (or unborn child) considered to be sentient? I mean, does anyone remember anything while they were in-utero (sp) or for the first year or so of their lives? Again, ideology creeps into this segment because the Christian and Catholic faith view human life as sacred, and oppose killing other human beings (though a good reason is rarely needed, I site the Crusades and just about every war to present as proof of that). If a fetus, that isn't totally self-aware (having an undeveloped brain), get's killed, would it notice? It sounds sadistic but it's a valid point. It's like keeping a loved one hooked up to a machine even though they're a vegetable. If you pull the plug, are they bound to notice? Isn't nothingness better than being a shell of a person? Merely an empty husk? Not to say that a baby is an empty husk, but I'm using an example.

 

Like Theta said, it's a terribly complex debate. Making the judgement/decision of a country's position towards that issue on a wholy ideological and theological nature isn't wise. In fact (IMMHO) it borders on the edge of religious/ideological fanaticism, not to mention lunacy. There is no clear-cut answer, and yet we seek one irregardless of the many complex facets of both sides (religion not-withstanding). It, like gay marriage, euthenasia, and other subjects, should not be solved by anyone who has a certain bias towards that topic. Only a person who has a total understanding and is unbiased should attempt to solve it. And that will never happen (at least not for a while).

[Peregrine]

I believe our friend Luthiel_Dragonsoul is the best argument in favor of abortion. Allowing such a disaster into the world is such a sad thing, even for him. But no, he must suffer a painful, pathetic life, because someone denied him the mercy of death.

 

 

 

Ok, seriously....

 

Fact: it is still unknown exactly when life begins. Even ignoring any arguments for/against the existence of a soul, we don't know when that life ceases to be an inanimate blob of cells and becomes its own life.

 

Fact: the purpose of sex is reproduction. Anyone with even minimal intelligence can figure this out. If you choose to have sex without the desire for reproduction, you accept the risk of accidents. More risk depending on your level of stupidity/carelessness of course.

 

Fact: there is nothing that requires you to accept that risk and have sex anyway. It is entirely a voluntary choice to accept that risk and responsibility for any consequences.

 

 

Now then, why should we take that chance of killing an innocent person to allow someone to dodge the consequences of a risk they willingly took? Instead, we should drop the incredible stupidity of abstinence-only education and stop producing people who honestly don't know any better. And yes, they exist, thanks to the various religious idiots who are too blinded by their "faith" to accept a solution. That and we should provide enough support for adoption, so that abortion isn't necessary. If any mother can give up their baby for adoption, there suddenly is no "think about the poor single mothers" argument.

 

 

And yes, I know there are exceptions to these points. But for the overwhelming majority of cases, it's true. If there's any valid medical reason, of course it should be legal (this of course being determined by a doctor, and "I don't want the baby" isn't a medical reason). And in cases of questionable/nonexistent consent, it becomes a debateable question.

 

 

 

As for the problem of dangerous illegal abortions, the solution is simple. Prosecute it as first degree murder (which it is), with the possibility of the death penalty if convicted. I suspect you'll see a lot more people choosing adoption instead.

[ThetaOrionis01]

Peregrine, have you ever been pregnant and experienced first-hand the enormous hormonal and psychological changes pregnancy forces upon the expectant mother? Or have you at least been in a relationship where a partner was pregnant, and you at least gained an idea of the changes in your partner?

 

If you had been, I doubt you would be so glib as to say

 

If there's any valid medical reason, of course it should be legal (this of course being determined by a doctor, and "I don't want the baby" isn't a medical reason).

 

'I don't want the baby' as a psychological/emotional rejection of the unborn can be a very valid reason for an abortion if continuing the pregnancy would cause the mother psychological damage. It could equally be argued that since a fetus is not independently viable, until it is born it is a parasite existing off the mother's body.

 

The only person to make that decision is the person experiencing the pregnancy first hand - the mother.

 

Things are not as clear cut as you would have us believe with your 'facts'.

[Malchik]

With reference to prosecuting illegal abortion as first degree murder I rather think it begs too many questions. The probability is that the woman will attempt to abort the child herself. This used to be commonplace. Or worse still, suffocate it and say it was born dead - this still is commonplace in some parts of the world.

 

As Theta points out the psychological effects on the woman have to be given due attention.

 

There are two other points to be considered. A child who is given away by his natural mother at birth also suffers psychologically. More research is probably needed on the effects of this before it is offered as a glib solution. If there are those who will act as a surrogate mother for cash, start getting state funding to have it properly controlled. Set up embryo development factories. There is always a solution if people are prepared to look for one. And if religious groups try to gripe, point out that there can be nothing about it in any religion. The technology didn't exist when their 'laws' were drawn up.

 

Then what is all this talk of individuals who have sex being fully aware of the consequences? Peregrine, have you never been drunk? One can be completely oblivious to any consequences! You may know them when you are sober but alcohol, as any drug, does strange things to the brain.

 

These are not simple issues and there can be no simple solution.

 

What really infuriates me is the smug attitude of those (particularly so called believers) who would accept more easily a woman killing herself to prevent an unwanted pregnancy (killing the foetus too of course) than permitting her to have an abortion. What kind of sickos are they!

[Matt]

2) If you are a man, abortion really isn't your subject to discuss. None of us are going to have to have a baby scraped out of our uterus any time soon.

Come again? It's certainly my concern if I'm the father.

 

Just support her in whatever decision she makes.

No. If she wants to abort my child against my wishes, I will not support her.

 

She could risk dying in delivery...

She accepted that risk by engaging in sexual intercourse. It was her choice.

 

Abortions, in my opinion, should be special case scenarios. Abortions should only be allowed in cases of rape or other abuses of sexuality.

I agree completely.