I have a bone to pick with a lot of fallout 4 pc mod authors.

[StormWolf01]

First I want to start off by saying this is to state a grievance that many of us on consoles have had , when this whole mod theft spree was going on the entirety of the mod community blamed everyone on console for the mod theft and stopped making mods for fallout 4 for console players based solely on this incident.

 

No one else has addressed this ever since it happened and thats bulls***. Most mod authors take out their anger on the console community as a whole to this day for what happened and its not fair.

 

So if there are any mod authors who participated in throwing all of us out that genuinely respected your work and wanted to see a proper port from you guys how do you all feel now considering youve pretty much left console players dead in the water with very few new mods coming in because of your pettiness.

Ok so first and foremost, I wanna say this. And yes, it does contain hostility, but it is NOT directed at You personally, Scar.

First and foremost - Bethesda's games wouldn't be anything, without the modding community. They don't fix their games, we do. They don't improve their games. We do. They don't create sustained interest in their games. We do.

We, the modding community do 300 times more, for Bethesda's games.... than Bethesda.

So in that, show some respect to them, that Bethesda DOES NOT.

 

Case in point: First 3 annual quarters of Fallout 76 where the modding community was not allowed hands on.

 

Second, some of your information is ok, but some of it is not. Particularly, where you are laying the blame.

Bethesda is the one that started pooping on the modders, when they decided to start offering mods themselves. PAID mods. Can we say: Horse Armor? Can we say, PAID mods that are half-arsed attempts at pirating FREE mods, from here on Nexus?

And it was Bethesda that went so far as to poop on modders, by allowing anybody who had the CK to steal mod author's creations, and post them to a separate website, without the author's consent. Which, while not "legally" stealing, is morally stealing. And THEN created a huge issue of it, when Nexus tried to get them to stop it. THERE is where your bad blood comes from.

It's not that we don't support Console players, IF we can.... it's that we don't support Bethesda.

 

Your accusation, also applies in reverse, you know. While I have a huge amount of respect for the man, I have an acquaintance on Bethesda.net that refuses to release his mods for PC. Guess what? Those mods do NOT start out in creation on a PS4. That is HIS choice, for HIS reasons. And just because a person doesn't agree with them, does not give them the right to come off with hostility towards him.

 

AS a modder, I myself will not, and will never, upload MY creations, MY work, to bethesda.net. And you can look at any of my mods, and I specifically state that I will not. Partly because of Bethesda. Partly because I DON'T OWN A CONSOLE.

I DO state, that anybody who wants to, is free to do so. As long as they agree to take the responsibility of being the person to SUPPORT that mod, on that site. Again, I cannot and will not for the above reasons.

BUT some of my mods, are NOT compatible with Xbox/PS4. Some of my mods, require access to the Developer's Console. Which... Bethesda refuses to give console players access to!

Or they require LooksMenu, which you cannot install on a console.

 

Now, let's talk about pointing blame where it really belongs. You can thank SONY for so many of the mods not being ported over, because they CAN'T BE. Sony has a Very Strict limitation that they will NOT allow mods that contain anything but Vanilla Assets. That means, NO CUSTOM MADE assets in mods.

 

Let's also talk about hardware limitations. There's quite a few mods on here that contain assets that the consoles just simply can't handle. Either because the overall size of the files is too big for MS or Sony's limitations. OR because literally, the hardware can't handle the graphics.

 

All that said. I understand. My addiction to Fallout4 started on a friend's PS4. I agree, the mods offered for that, aren't even an appetizer compared to what are offered for pc. But, theres actual REASONS for that. You folks can't use F4se. The decks have no way to install it. So you can't use custom bodies or customized figures. You guys don't have the race mods that we do, y'all can't use looksmenu, or bodyslide. On and on and on.

But, that's not OUR fault.

 

So, in ending. Instead of buying into the horse drek that it's a bias against you folks, or paying attention to all these "Us vs Them" "victimhood" morons who thrive off of being prejudiced against.... I really think that it would be best to take a few minutes to think about it, and realize that the modders need to be THANKED, because without them, Bethesda would only have a bunch of B grade games, that people would forget about after their first few playthroughs.

[HeyYou]

 

First I want to start off by saying this is to state a grievance that many of us on consoles have had , when this whole mod theft spree was going on the entirety of the mod community blamed everyone on console for the mod theft and stopped making mods for fallout 4 for console players based solely on this incident.

 

No one else has addressed this ever since it happened and thats bulls***. Most mod authors take out their anger on the console community as a whole to this day for what happened and its not fair.

 

So if there are any mod authors who participated in throwing all of us out that genuinely respected your work and wanted to see a proper port from you guys how do you all feel now considering youve pretty much left console players dead in the water with very few new mods coming in because of your pettiness.

Ok so first and foremost, I wanna say this. And yes, it does contain hostility, but it is NOT directed at You personally, Scar.

First and foremost - Bethesda's games wouldn't be anything, without the modding community. They don't fix their games, we do. They don't improve their games. We do. They don't create sustained interest in their games. We do.

We, the modding community do 300 times more, for Bethesda's games.... than Bethesda.

So in that, show some respect to them, that Bethesda DOES NOT.

 

Case in point: First 3 annual quarters of Fallout 76 where the modding community was not allowed hands on.

 

Second, some of your information is ok, but some of it is not. Particularly, where you are laying the blame.

Bethesda is the one that started pooping on the modders, when they decided to start offering mods themselves. PAID mods. Can we say: Horse Armor? Can we say, PAID mods that are half-arsed attempts at pirating FREE mods, from here on Nexus?

And it was Bethesda that went so far as to poop on modders, by allowing anybody who had the CK to steal mod author's creations, and post them to a separate website, without the author's consent. Which, while not "legally" stealing, is morally stealing. And THEN created a huge issue of it, when Nexus tried to get them to stop it. THERE is where your bad blood comes from.

It's not that we don't support Console players, IF we can.... it's that we don't support Bethesda.

 

Your accusation, also applies in reverse, you know. While I have a huge amount of respect for the man, I have an acquaintance on Bethesda.net that refuses to release his mods for PC. Guess what? Those mods do NOT start out in creation on a PS4. That is HIS choice, for HIS reasons. And just because a person doesn't agree with them, does not give them the right to come off with hostility towards him.

 

AS a modder, I myself will not, and will never, upload MY creations, MY work, to bethesda.net. And you can look at any of my mods, and I specifically state that I will not. Partly because of Bethesda. Partly because I DON'T OWN A CONSOLE.

I DO state, that anybody who wants to, is free to do so. As long as they agree to take the responsibility of being the person to SUPPORT that mod, on that site. Again, I cannot and will not for the above reasons.

BUT some of my mods, are NOT compatible with Xbox/PS4. Some of my mods, require access to the Developer's Console. Which... Bethesda refuses to give console players access to!

Or they require LooksMenu, which you cannot install on a console.

 

Now, let's talk about pointing blame where it really belongs. You can thank SONY for so many of the mods not being ported over, because they CAN'T BE. Sony has a Very Strict limitation that they will NOT allow mods that contain anything but Vanilla Assets. That means, NO CUSTOM MADE assets in mods.

 

Let's also talk about hardware limitations. There's quite a few mods on here that contain assets that the consoles just simply can't handle. Either because the overall size of the files is too big for MS or Sony's limitations. OR because literally, the hardware can't handle the graphics.

 

All that said. I understand. My addiction to Fallout4 started on a friend's PS4. I agree, the mods offered for that, aren't even an appetizer compared to what are offered for pc. But, theres actual REASONS for that. You folks can't use F4se. The decks have no way to install it. So you can't use custom bodies or customized figures. You guys don't have the race mods that we do, y'all can't use looksmenu, or bodyslide. On and on and on.

But, that's not OUR fault.

 

So, in ending. Instead of buying into the horse drek that it's a bias against you folks, or paying attention to all these "Us vs Them" "victimhood" morons who thrive off of being prejudiced against.... I really think that it would be best to take a few minutes to think about it, and realize that the modders need to be THANKED, because without them, Bethesda would only have a bunch of B grade games, that people would forget about after their first few playthroughs.

 

Just as a side note here..... Beth actually has the legal right to do whatever they want with mods for their games. Its in the EULA for the CK. As it is their game, and they are the ones the provided the tools to mod their games, I really don't have a problem with that. After all, a mod for one game, becomes a standard feature in the next. :) Beth has taken a fair few ideas from mods for a game, and implemented them in the next game. Crafting, flora changing when you harvest it, etc, all were ideas taken from mods. They even went so far as to HIRE a Morrowind Modder, as a developer for Oblivion. :)

 

Of course, now.... MS owns Beth..... Not sure if that was a good idea or not.... remains to be seen. I AM looking forward Starfield though. It looks promising. (but, I won't pick it up until after it has been out for a few months...... give beth a chance to fix some of the release-day bugs. :) )

[StormWolf01]

Yeah I knew about Beth's clause about ownership of mods. But it is a good note for those that don't know about it.

 

Ok, so let me ask, without giving away any privileged info here. Do you honestly think, in your opinion, that they were better off as being their own boss, or being bossed by Bethesda's development team?

 

There's multiple modders that are working for Beth, as "agents". They create some of the CC stuff now.

 

As for Microsoft. One company with the biggest record for broken software, buying out another one. Seems like a match made in heaven, IMO

One other thing to wait for on Starfield, is to find out just how much of MS's "Security" software (aka spyware and ransomware) gets put into the production editions,

[JimboUK]

 

As for Microsoft. One company with the biggest record for broken software, buying out another one. Seems like a match made in heaven, IMO

One other thing to wait for on Starfield, is to find out just how much of MS's "Security" software (aka spyware and ransomware) gets put into the production editions,

 

Microsoft might have done a good thing, the day before Starfield got delayed Bethesda were posting pictures of Phil Spencer visiting them, you have to wonder if he saw it and delayed it. We know Bethesda are quite happy to release broken games and if that Starfield trailer was anything to go by the game was in a poor state.

[StormWolf01]

 

 

As for Microsoft. One company with the biggest record for broken software, buying out another one. Seems like a match made in heaven, IMO

One other thing to wait for on Starfield, is to find out just how much of MS's "Security" software (aka spyware and ransomware) gets put into the production editions,

 

Microsoft might have done a good thing, the day before Starfield got delayed Bethesda were posting pictures of Phil Spencer visiting them, you have to wonder if he saw it and delayed it. We know Bethesda are quite happy to release broken games and if that Starfield trailer was anything to go by the game was in a poor state.

 

Ok, we're getting way off topic, lol. But hey, it keeps the thread from getting shut down, or devolving into a flame fest :D

I'm not gonna say that at least in the case of Starfield, it could be a BAD thing. Wait and see is my opinion on That. But yea. From what I'd seen of some of the early previews, it looked like Beth was taking on something WAY, WAY beyond their scope. They were talking about solar systems of populated planets.

I mean, I haven't experienced Skyrim. But previous experience says that Beth's population - ing isn't spectacular. Neither are their quests, which except for the really big ones, are lackluster. I cant really imagine an entire solar system of horse drek quests.

[JimboUK]

 

Ok, we're getting way off topic, lol. But hey, it keeps the thread from getting shut down, or devolving into a flame fest :D

 

I'm not gonna say that at least in the case of Starfield, it could be a BAD thing. Wait and see is my opinion on That. But yea. From what I'd seen of some of the early previews, it looked like Beth was taking on something WAY, WAY beyond their scope. They were talking about solar systems of populated planets.

I mean, I haven't experienced Skyrim. But previous experience says that Beth's population - ing isn't spectacular. Neither are their quests, which except for the really big ones, are lackluster. I cant really imagine an entire solar system of horse drek quests.

 

 

I think Bethesda either need to drastically increase the size of their team or reduce the scale of the games. At the moment the games are taking way too long to make and when they're finished they have little depth, they build these stunning worlds and fill them with content that is as you say lacklustre. It also leads to a lack of polish and a "that'll have to do" mentality, game world aside nothing in their games is done well, it's not like they don't have the talent, we get glimpses of it, Far Harbour, The Pitt, Point Lookout and the Shivering Isles all have quality content, then there's Morrowind, on a technical level it's a disaster of epic proportions but it had a ton of depth. Another problem with taking so long to make a game is that feels dated when it comes out, Fallout 4 felt like a remastered 360 game and who didn't roll their eyes when they saw the mining laser in the Starfield trailer, what would have a been a newish idea when development started is now old and tired, I don't want to have to travel to a thousand planets to do what we've been doing for years now in the likes of No Mans Sky.

 

Look what Ubisoft manage to do with a large team, both Assassins Creed Odyssey and Origins have worlds that are far more detailed than Bethesda's and they have far more engaging content, yeah they have the usual open world busy work but that's tolerable because the combat is good, it just a shame that the suits try to monetise the hell out of the games.

 

I don't dislike Bethesda but they infuriate me, they have the talent to make great games, sadly they also seem have a management who stifle creativity and who value quantity over quality.

[StormWolf01]

One of the things that really hurts Beth games, (possibly with the exception of New Vegas) is that their character models look like total tish. You mentioned Morrowind, and that's a prime example of how the modders saved THAT game, by Better Bodies and Better Faces mods. Gawd, those were just Horrendous. And that was in a day where games Were producing better models than that.

Hopefully, MS can poke them in the rump hard enough to get them to switch to a better game engine. Like Unreal. Granted it would mean adapting a lot of things to the modding community, and possibly force the creation of new tools, but it would bring their games up to date. And do HUGE wonders for their graphics, and the possibilities for mods.

 

I do also agree, they need to not just increase the size of their teams, but diversify them as well. Stop having one semi-large group rolling out just one game, every several years.

My opinion is... that above all else, That's Beth's biggest mistake.

Not that they should start rolling out sequels/prequels every year. But One game every 4-5 years is NOT a winning strategy!

[HeyYou]

Well, being owned by MS, funding becomes a non-issue..... Not that they were hurting for cash as an independent developer.

 

New Vegas was done by Obsidian, published by Beth. :)

 

How does Microsoft Define an "Upgrade"? Replacing software that doesn't work, with software that doesn't work, in a different way......

 

I kinda liked the gameplay trailer..... but then, when it comes to games, I am not overly hard to please. Morrowind is still my favorite game though, graphics/models aside, the STORY was good. I liked the game mechanics far more than subsequent games as well. Morrowind was a 'real' RPG.

[JimboUK]

One of the things that really hurts Beth games, (possibly with the exception of New Vegas) is that their character models look like total tish. You mentioned Morrowind, and that's a prime example of how the modders saved THAT game, by Better Bodies and Better Faces mods. Gawd, those were just Horrendous. And that was in a day where games Were producing better models than that.

Hopefully, MS can poke them in the rump hard enough to get them to switch to a better game engine. Like Unreal. Granted it would mean adapting a lot of things to the modding community, and possibly force the creation of new tools, but it would bring their games up to date. And do HUGE wonders for their graphics, and the possibilities for mods.

 

I do also agree, they need to not just increase the size of their teams, but diversify them as well. Stop having one semi-large group rolling out just one game, every several years.

My opinion is... that above all else, That's Beth's biggest mistake.

Not that they should start rolling out sequels/prequels every year. But One game every 4-5 years is NOT a winning strategy!

 

 

I think the characters are another result of the "That'll do" mentality, players and modders can make decent looking characters, the worst offenders are FO3 and New Vegas, surely someone noticed that the African American characters are turning green? freakish looking characters are one thing but green ones are inexcusable.

 

I agree that a new engine is in order, they can't keep adding more and more duct tape to the current one. Unreal would be a good choice, if the developer provides the tools it would be easy to mod while the game itself would look and run better, CD Projekt have been sensible enough to make the switch, Bethesda should as well because Starfield looks like a 2016 game.

[fraquar]

People don't completely grasp the concept of making a game 3rd party moddable.

If you do that, you do so knowing the user base is going to change what you've made anyway - it's by design - and it's a good design.

You don't bog down your design team trying to make Piper look like Cindy Crawford - the modding community has that covered (within the limitations of the Engine of course).

 

The issue people have isn't with the esoterics, it's with the foundation of the game. Modding community spends a TON of time fixing things that shouldn't need to be fixed from an Engine and Bug related perspective. Things like the HD Texture Pack - it made the game worse not better if you used it.

 

Added: As for the OP's rant, well I'll just say that ALOT of mods either directly or indirectly rely on functionality that is provided by something that can't be ported to Console in the first place. F4SE.

 

MCM menu - i.e. in-game mod configuration? F4SE

This mod alone is like the Gold Standard of mods that improve the game beyond words.

Looks Menu? F4SE

Bullet Counted Reload? F4SE

etc, etc.

 

The entirety of FallUI depends on F4SE, because it leverages MCM menu to make configuring your game a smooth in-game process.

Edited August 26, 2022 by fraquar