The USSEP Patch Is Diverging From Its Original Goals: Discuss

[cumbrianlad]

Edit: solved. I now know why the USSEP team has such a problem with multiple versions of the patch. Read the rest and pay particular attention to showler's posts. I withdraw any requests to offer a different version of the patch because I agree with the reasoning that has been given to me in this thread.

 

I've been barred from posting on the USSEP mod site. Fact,

 

It happened because I posted a bit of a rant.

 

My rant was not meant to be aimed at the USSEP team, more at Beth for dumping CC stuff on me that I didn't want. I'm talking about the four 'Creations' that were added by the 1.6 update.

 

In a nutshell, I tried to be polite. I asked several times if a version of USSEP could be made that would allow players to keep the patch, but remove the Creations.* They said "No, I refer you to the sticky post" The 'Sticky Post' refers to the fact that USSEP considers all Creation Club stuff inserted by the patch to be 'part of the vanilla game'. What? Err... Fishing and the rest was not in the vanilla game.

 

I was banned and my posts were removed, so you can't read them. I didn't swear, I was not rude. I asked polite questions. The USSEP team were, shall we say 'less than forthcoming'?

 

I think that the team is getting way above themselves... they seem to think that their view is final. They refuse to listen to people who play the game, as you and I do. They appear to believe that what they do is right and players cannot dispute anything that they have decided: shocking. I'm utterly disappointed by this. I endorsed them since they set off, but... I think they're getting snobby and arrogant. I still want to back them, but I find their replies to myself to be rude, to say the least.

 

Just to be balanced, here's what I like about the patch, coupled with what I don't like...

 

What I Like...

 

 

The original fixes, the Markarth banners not having the right texture. The good fixes are innumerable. It's why I loved the patch and why it's great and I'd not want to remove it... ever!

 

 

 

What I don't like...

 

 

Thousands of forms 'corrected' for 'spelling mistakes', for example, 'magicka' in a spell description should be 'Magicka'. So what? 'Lumbermill' should be 'Lumber Mill'. Who says? Each of these thousands of edits make the patch bigger and a lot of them are pointless. As a player, I don't care about the odd spelling 'mistake'. I'm English. The game is American. I expect to see spellings that are 'wrong' to a Brit.

 

Mostly, I don't like that it is not possible to remove the 'Creations' without removing USSEP first. I can do it, but most players can't.

 

 

I love the patch. I'm loving it less.

 

I don't like that the patch team has now made it that I need to keep Creation Club or Get rid of their patch.

 

If you're like me, despite what I've said, you'll want the patch.

 

You may not want the Creations and you might want to remove them.

 

What do you think?

* You can do this with Wrye Bash and SSEedit

[cumbrianlad]

I suppose I just want you to say what you think of the patch.

 

Listen, Patch Team... I love your work, I just think you're straying from your ideals.

[showler]

Nothing to say about the patch.

 

You don't tell a mod author what to do with their mod.

 

If you are told your opinions are not welcome, you do not continue posting them.

 

This is basic etiquette.

[cumbrianlad]

I suppose I just want you to say what you think of the patch.

 

Listen, Patch Team... I love your work, I just think you're straying from your ideals.

Fair to a point.

 

I am a mod author, though.

 

Here's how I deal with posts on my mod page...

 

...people posted ludicreous stuff about my own mod. I replied politely. I considered every post, though, even if I thought it was daft. Sometimes I thought: 'Fair point'. I changed and updated the mod.

 

The USSEP team did not contact me, warn me. they simply removed my posts and barred me.

 

That's something I would never do.

 

One player was extremely rude to me about my mod. I read their post, gave them advice and moved on, but not before I offered them helpful advice.

 

My point is that anyone can tell me (rightly or wrongly) about my own mods. I will try to help them, regardless of whether or not I believe they are right. I could say that their opinions are not welcome, but I wouldn't. Their opinions are equally valid. They are playing my mod and don't like some of it: that's fair comment.

 

I welcomed all feedback, warm or cold. I never tried to bar a player from posting because I 'Didn't like their opinion'.

 

That is basic etiquette to me. The USSEP team did not afford me that etiquette, in my opinion.

 

My opinions on any mod, USSEP or otherwise are equally valid.

 

I am fully aware of the concept of etiquette.

 

I would like to reiterate at this point that I still endorse the patch!

[gnarly1]

<terminated>

1. You posted a rant on a mod page (do NOT do this; the posts tab is primarily for support and constructive feedback)

2. By your own admission the rant was about something no modder can change (Beth's decision to include CC content)

3. You asked the same thing several times

4. You think all of that's ok because you didn't swear and you weren't rude

5. You think that because you're remarkably tolerant of a$$holes (a technical term, look it up) who post on your mod pages, every other modder should also be like that

6. Then you come on this forum and take pot shots at the USSEP team and say some fairly uncharitable and insulting things about them.

 

None of what you've done is ok and is entirely counterproductive to what you're trying to achieve.

 

Why did you reply to yourself above, btw?

Edited September 3, 2022 by gnarly1

[cumbrianlad]

 

<terminated>

1. You posted a rant on a mod page (do NOT do this; the posts tab is primarily for support and constructive feedback)

2. By your own admission the rant was about something no modder can change (Beth's decision to include CC content)

3. You asked the same thing several times

4. You think all of that's ok because you didn't swear and you weren't rude

5. You think that because you're remarkably tolerant of a$$holes (a technical term, look it up) who post on your mod pages, every other modder should also be like that

6. Then you come on this forum and take pot shots at the USSEP team and say some fairly uncharitable and insulting things about them.

 

None of what you've done is ok and is entirely counterproductive to what you're trying to achieve.

 

Why did you reply to yourself above, btw?

 

The replying to myself bit is quite simple. I clicked on the wrong post to quote by mistake. Once I noticed it, I couldn't edit the post to remove it. You have my apologies.

 

My post was not about something that no modder could change. It was about the decision to make the four CC mods that were slipped in via update to be masters for the patch. The patch can be independent of those 4 esp files. That is a choice made by the team. I've looked at them in SSEedit and I can see why they would want to change some of the errors for players who wanted them. I just want the option for players to keep the patch and remove the CC mods, should they want to.

 

I love the unofficial patch on the whole and do not want to be without it. I think it has done a vast amount of extremely good work and the team in general are to be praised for this. That's not to say that I can't be critical of this choice.

 

I don't like the CC mods and have never wanted CC mods in my game. Now I have them, because I hadn't played for years and had Steam set to update automatically. I can't remove them or the game will CTD because the patch has them as masters and I want the patch. It was one of the first mods I ever downloaded. I endorsed it then and have no wish to remove my endorsement. Personally, I can probably use Wrye bash and SSEedit to remove the dependancy but many players won't be able to do that. I may try that because I really want the unofficial patch. I said in my original post here that I love it but am loving it less. I still love it, though.

 

It seems that you read my post before it was removed. You're right that I asked the same thing several times. That was because it was never answered. I was referred to the sticky point that stated that the CC mods were considered to be part of the vanilla game and had to be masters for the unofficial patch. I still disagree with that, for the reason I have given.

 

I agree that they are entirely within their rights to ban me from posting on the mod page. I was frustrated by that because I felt that I had been too harsh and wanted to post an apology and an explanation that was more clear. The team has my apologies here. I'm sorry.

 

I praised the team in my original post and will praise them again. I am definitely not a hater of the patch and I'm sorry that once again I haven't got that across properly.

 

I think it's perfectly reasonable and pretty simple to host a version of the patch that has no CC dependencies.

 

I suggested an alternative file that did not have the 4 CC mods as masters so that players could opt out of the CC mods if they wanted to.

 

You may be correct that posting this is counterproductive but I don't know what else to do. I am trying to be fair. Do you think that we should have a version independent of the CC mods?

[showler]

No.

 

It means more work for them. You have no right to ask for that from them.

 

They were clear that they wanted just one version to maintain for all platforms.

[gnarly1]

My post was not about something that no modder could change.

You've misread. You wrote that the rant was aimed at Beth. I responded that no modder can change Beth's decisions ergo it is pointless to litigate that on a mod page.

 

It seems that you read my post before it was removed.

 

No, I read your OP here and response to showler.

 

It's good that you've apologised to the USSEP team but it gets lost in all the other stuff you wrote - most of which wasn't needed to respond to me.

Edited September 3, 2022 by gnarly1

[showler]

I feel like you are not aware of the Unofficial Patch history. The last time there was a divergence in game versions being used (in that case the VR version not having the expansions or getting updates) it started with people "just asking" for a forked version and, after the Patch team gave their reasons for not doing so, ended with the askers straight up stealing the mod and posting modified versions of it on other sites while claiming they had some divine right to do so.

 

There's a reason they cut these conversations shirt now.

 

If you don't want the CC content, install it anyway, install the USSEP, and then get mods to block or remove the CC content. Or just ignore the fishing gear and don't turn on Survival Mode.

 

That way you are doing the work instead of asking them to do it.

[cumbrianlad]

 

My post was not about something that no modder could change.

You've misread. You wrote that the rant was aimed at Beth. I responded that no modder can change Beth's decisions ergo it is pointless to litigate that on a mod page.

 

It seems that you read my post before it was removed.

 

No, I read your OP here and response to showler.

 

It's good that you've apologised to the USSEP team but it gets lost in all the other stuff you wrote - most of which wasn't needed to respond to me.

 

Thanks for that.