Switch Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 My somewhat unpopular answer to the question: Hell yes. I mean, look at the universe. Everything has structure, meaning, purpose in some shape or form. Plants for instance wrap themselves around things as they grow, they cling onto things, some even specifically lure creatures into their mouths and devour them (fly traps). I don't think this is random at all. This is organic pre-programming, not the result of two atoms bumping into eachother accidentally due to an infinite chance of them doing so IMO. (Infinity times zero is still zero, in my mind). I could give you countless other examples if I wanted to, but you only have to look around you and really think about it. So, yes, I believe we were meant to exist. We may well have evolved from apes, the evidence is strong, but there was purpose in that I'm sure of it. Christianity and science aren't necessarily in direct conflict with one another. The theory of the big bang may well be correct, it seems to make sense alright, the only part that doesn't for me is the part where random chance started it. Now, if there were some force guiding it to happen, yep, I can believe that. As for Earth not supporting the things we do to it, well, that's probably because we're doing things to it we're not meant to. Not because we're not meant to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThetaOrionis01 Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 I disagree. I think that evolution fills every possible niche, and that's why you find the examples you've described.And the ones you haven't. Disease. Parasites. Are tapeworms meant to exist? Is the Ebola virus? Evolution is a long adaptive process - you don't see all the dead ends, because they stopped existing - some of them so long ago that there's barely a trace of them. Everything has a probablity. It is highly unlikely that in an infinite universe the evolution of life should have a 0 probability. Therefore intelligence had to emerge. That it was on this planet (though the 'intelligent' is debatable, of course http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/lachen/laughing-smiley-004.gif ) is just pure coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malchik Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 The original poster asked if intelligent life was meant to exist. Meant by whom or what? As with the typing monkeys producing the works of Shakespeare everything will happen in infinity. Therefore it had to happen. Of course this does not answer the question of just how intelligent we really are and whether or not there are other 'existences' with a higher level of intelligence. I'll pass on that if no one minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabbemaster Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 What is you guys talking about? I don't understand? :wink2: And I'm verry good at counting! Just so you know! One, Two, Thre... And then there is many! :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darnoc Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 It is highly unlikely that in an infinite universe the evolution of life should have a 0 probability. From everything I know, the universe is finite, both in space and time. So it is possible that evolvment of intelligent life is impossible. You should also be aware that more and more scientists believe that not even 4,5 billion years are enough for intelligent life to evolve. And that is a problem, since there is no indication whatsoever that earth is any older than 4,5 billion years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThetaOrionis01 Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Do you have any links supporting those claims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darnoc Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Do you have any links supporting those claims? Concerning finity of universe: I never heard that the universe should be infinite. I know that some believed that, but from everything I have read this opinion was abandond quite a long time ago by most scientists. From what I know, there are three possibilities: 1. The universe has enough matter, so that it's expansion will stop and it will get smaller again, until it has reached the same condition as before the big bang. From what I know, most scientists have abandond this theory, since the universe doesn't seem to have enough matter. 2. The universe will expand in all eternity, but in time all matter will be concentrated in black holes, perhaps only one super black hole. And from this point the universe will expand, but nothing will evolve. 3. The expansion will come to a halt, but will not be reversed. In time the same thing as in 2. will happen, evolvement will finally stop. But perhaps you were reffering to the theory of the multiverse that there is an infinite number of universes. Again, from what I know there is no real proof for this theory, but I could be wrong of course. Concerning the evolvment of life and the time it needs: I can't think of any link, since most information I have comes out of books and not out of the internet. But I will try and find something in the net. OK, just stumbled across this link here. Don't know if this is satisfying, I mostly rather trust something from books than from the net. http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/re2/chapter9.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThetaOrionis01 Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 I'm sorry Darnoc, but I don't accept sites with a religious bias as credible evidence. If you could find a purely scientific site I'll examine this unlikely theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malchik Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Not strictly on topic but relevant to Darnoc's posts. The average human mind cannot understand infinity but nor can it understand the concept of finiteness when time and space are concerned. Questions such as what is beyond the edge of the universe or what happens after time has ended are concepts for philosophers, logicians and mathematicians and any scientists who use these as part of their approach. From a purely abstract theoretical point of view finity or infinity is possible for either or both and there is a (near enough) infinite number of points where they might have begun and can end. Current thinking attempts to find the time-line that fits most closely to the empirical evidence available at the moment. Such theories are constantly being revised as ever more information, and more accurate information, becomes available. Whilst it is right to acknowledge these ideas it is worth bearing in mind how rapidly these have changed in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Switch Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 I disagree. I think that evolution fills every possible niche, and that's why you find the examples you've described.And the ones you haven't. Disease. Parasites. Are tapeworms meant to exist? Is the Ebola virus?<{POST_SNAPBACK}>Really? So you're telling me that bees, for instance, can create perfect symmetry inside their hives repeatedly and without fail, just because they learnt how to do it through some sort of evolutionary genetic memory? And nothing programmed that to happen? Not to mention they have brains the size of peas, if that. And if this universe is supposedly so random, surely it should have got screwed up during the process, and they should be creating more random shapes rather than all the same. I find it a little hard to believe, personally... As for the disease, well, a lot of it has evolved from us resisting existing viri I think. Like, for instance, these new super viruses that are immune to all forms of antibiotics form in hospitals due to all the possible agents being present. I couldn't tell you how or why or if they were meant to originally exist without knowing more about that sort of thing. :tongue2: I believe evolution does exist, but that it performs in a sort of pre-programmed pattern, rather than complete randomness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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