So lets have a respectful conversation about AI generated voice acting. Is it Good or Bad?

[lazloarcadia]

So with the rise of AI applications like ElevenLabs and ChatGPT how will this affect our modding community?

 

Here are a few of the thoughts that stood out to me immediately:

 

• Will AI generated voice acting scare away legit voice actors who fear having their voices cloned?
  
• Will the easy availability to create unique voice files encourage mod authors to dive deeper into creating mods that require custom dialog lines?
  
• What are the ethical concerns for using video & audio clips of famous people as a template to create new AI generated voices? Think about your favorite actor, sports personality, political figure, talk show host or singer as a basis for creating such files.
  
• Are those same concerns relevant if the voices, facial expressions, etc of several people were used to model the creation of one unique / composite AI "personality"?

 

I'm curious to see what the community's thoughts are on this. What potential do you see with this new technology from the stand point of creating new mod content? What problems could potentially bite us in ass?

Feel free to (respectfully) voice your thoughts or concerns on this one.

[HeyYou]

Donald Trump as the Leader of the BoS...... :D

 

I think the laws need to catch up with technology. Currently, you can use AI generated voice files, and upload them here.. But, this is a non-commercial use, so, not sure if the legal eagles will even care.... (unless they are really bored....) I think if folks were charging for those, that would change the picture though..... But, yes, I DO think it opens up opportunity for much more depth of conversations with NPC's. Just feed some lines into whatever interface, and out pops usable voice files. Too easy. :D

[showler]

I'd imagine the rules are going to be similar to what we already have.

 

For Bethesda assets, we'll need to wait until they make a public statement about it. I suspect they'll try to take a soft touch at first, barring the use of AI generated voices based on dialogue from other games, but allowing it for dialogue from the game you are modding. Similar to their rules on other assets. That will likely be the rule until something forces them to take a more restrictive stance.

 

As for Nexus rules, I see no reason why it should be different from other mod assets. If you can't take someone's original model from their mod, alter it and then release it in your mod without permission, then I see no reason why you should be able to do it with voice performances. No permission, no sampling for your mod.

 

It would be nice to have full dialogue in all mods, but it's not important enough to step on the rights of the original creators.

 

If, however, there is an AI voice generator that can do voices based on aggregate voice sampling from the internet rather than from specific people it would probably be okay.

[lazloarcadia]

So I'm pulling from a post I put on the discussion section of Roleplayer's Expanded Dialogue (RED) in which this issue had come up. Basically the discussion had revolved around Courtney Taylor, the voice of the female protagonist featured in Fallout 4. She became aware that someone had created a mod for a different game using custom AI generated files of her voice. She felt this was not ok and demanded the files be removed.

Out of courtesy for her wishes ProfMajkowski also removed the additional AI generated lines of voiced content he had created for RED from his mod. He was not asked specifically to do this, but did it out of respect for the actress.

 

Here was my response. Please feel free to let me know if my reasoning on this is in error.

 

=====

 

So after looking deeper into this I've realized the voice actor in question is Courtney Taylor, the voice actress that did the lines for the female sole survivor protagonist (I didn't realize this previously). This creates a somewhat difficult issue.

When a voice actor contracts with a studio for a project such as a movie or video game they understand that the studio now owns that content and any claims of ownership to it. More over, Bethesda has stated many times that they were perfectly fine with the modding community creating custom content for their games and using existing in-game assets for the purposes of doing so.

As such, I struggle to see how taking the existing voice lines (an asset Bethesda owns) and then using those lines as a model upon which to create custom content is any different. The AI voice model is not based on some other project Courtney had worked on. It is not based on someone stalking her social media, or television interviews she may have done. Rather it was based upon existing dialog that Bethesda has exclusive rights to.

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So there you have it. Am I wrong in my understanding of this?

[showler]

Your thinking appears to be okay.

 

But Ms. Taylor requested the removal of a mod that used her voice in a different game, which is already against Bethesda's rules unless you try to use a technicality to get around that rule.

 

And the modder, ProfMajkowski, made the decision to remove the audio files from their mod without anyone requesting it. That was their decision.

[lazloarcadia]

My understanding, and it is far from perfect in this case, is that Courtney Taylor voiced the character "Jack" in Mass Effect. It was from those files that the Mass Effect mod was created. It was a free mod based on in-game assets and only used for that game. Mass Effect is owned by Bioware / Microsoft who allow the creation of free mods based on their in-game assets.

The voice lines from Fallout 4 fall into the same category. She voiced the female sole survivor, and those files became game assets owned by Bethesda. The two mods are 100% separate.

 

As for ProfMajkowski removing the AI generated custom voice lines from his mod, you are 100% correct. He was not asked to do it, nor legally threatened in some way. Rather he felt it was a respectful thing to do because he realized Courtney was uncomfortable with the whole idea of an AI being able to mimic her talents. That was his decision, and one which I completely support.

Edited April 20, 2023 by lazloarcadia

[RoNin1971]

My understanding, and it is far from perfect in this case, is that Courtney Taylor voiced the character "Jack" in Mass Effect. It was from those files that the Mass Effect mod was created. It was a free mod based on in-game assets and only used for that game. Mass Effect is owned by Bioware / Microsoft who allow the creation of free mods based on their in-game assets.

 

The voice lines from Fallout 4 fall into the same category. She voiced the female sole survivor, and those files became game assets owned by Bethesda. The two mods are 100% separate.

 

As for ProfMajkowski removing the AI generated custom voice lines from his mod, you are 100% correct. He was not asked to do it, nor legally threatened in some way. Rather he felt it was a respectful thing to do because he realized Courtney was uncomfortable with the whole idea of an AI being able to mimic her talents. That was his decision, and one which I completely support.

I understand Courtney's position, its her way of making a living. She gets payed for it. Now an A.I. can do it, for no fee & she's out of a job (potentially)

 

But, as stated, Bethesda & Bioware are now the respective owners of those audio files & its up to them, not her.

The A.I. generated content is a different case all together. It's NOT her voice. It only sounds like her. Legally nobody can do anything about that (in my part of the globe anyway).

 

Still, kudo's to ProfMajkowski to remove them out of respect, but he didn't have to.

 

edit:

Besides these kind of issue's and probable legal struggles in the near future, I do believe it will give a massive boost to the modding community.

 

As I stated above, Voice actors are doing it for a fee. (they do need to eat too ;) ) The average modder can't afford that & doesn't have any useful relatives or friends to help 'm out. A.I. will turn that upside down. Which is great of course.

 

The 'dark side' being people using 'famous' voices of people without consent. (whether it is required or not)

 

Its not much different from deep fake video. You can do wonderful things, like bringing back Moff Tarkin or a young Luke Skywalker, you can also use it to make people do bad or stupid things, and then damage them with it.

Edited April 20, 2023 by RoNin1971

[showler]

My understanding, and it is far from perfect in this case, is that Courtney Taylor voiced the character "Jack" in Mass Effect. It was from those files that the Mass Effect mod was created. It was a free mod based on in-game assets and only used for that game. Mass Effect is owned by Bioware / Microsoft who allow the creation of free mods based on their in-game assets.

 

Ah, sorry then. I misunderstood when you said "mod for another game".

[showler]

 

But, as stated, Bethesda & Bioware are now the respective owners of those audio files & its up to them, not her.

The A.I. generated content is a different case all together. It's NOT her voice. It only sounds like her. Legally nobody can do anything about that (in my part of the globe anyway).

 

 

Bethesda's ownership of the audio may be subject to the terms of their contract with the voice actor. We already know that they have a strict policy against porting audio from one game to another due to those contracts.

 

And, if Bethesda announced a rule against using AI voices trained from their games in a mod they could enforce that rule in a variety of ways without it needing to be illegal. Any reputable modding site would refuse to carry such mods anyway.

[RoNin1971]

 

 

But, as stated, Bethesda & Bioware are now the respective owners of those audio files & its up to them, not her.

The A.I. generated content is a different case all together. It's NOT her voice. It only sounds like her. Legally nobody can do anything about that (in my part of the globe anyway).

 

Bethesda's ownership of the audio may be subject to the terms of their contract with the voice actor. We already know that they have a strict policy against porting audio from one game to another due to those contracts.

 

And, if Bethesda announced a rule against using AI voices trained from their games in a mod they could enforce that rule in a variety of ways without it needing to be illegal. Any reputable modding site would refuse to carry such mods anyway.

 

Correct, but such contracts usually make sure the 'actor' has as little rights to it as possible. They don't want to risk the actor changing their minds.

 

Training an A.I. with existing proprietary audio files is basically already illegal, unless the owner allows it. (like Bethesda)

Mimicking the voice is a different story. As is getting 'canceled'.