Experienced modders: Can this game be fixed?

[gnarly1]

Hello Creation Club.

Is that supposed to be some sort of edgy, obscure leap of logic? I have no idea how it relates to what I wrote.

[DeckardKain]

Why are you being combative? I don't want to get into a fight with you.

What I mean is, the shareholders loved the Creation Club. BGS's shares have never been higher, so of course they care about the modders.
We aren't treading new territory here; we've seen all of BGS's gameplay before.
The tactic here isn't to make a great game, it's to build an organic, self-sustaining game.
For example, one reason modding is coming to Xbox is thanks to this engine and Papyrus. Just imagine if we could execute C++ code on consoles; that would never happen!

[DeckardKain]

Figure of speech, Board of directors / shareholders, whatever...
BGS is owned by ZeniMax (now known as Bethesda Softworks, LLC), which is owned by Microsoft, which is owned by others.
Sure, BGS is not publicly traded, but that does not mean there is no shareholder interest.
Now, ZeniMax made a significant investment in BGS with the introduction of the Creation Club; that is what I am talking about.
And no, without a dedicated scripting language for it, modding on consoles is doomed to be limited.

Stop insulting me now and calling me naive and uneducated; I have been involved with BGS development for 20+ years now, so f off. You are coming off as rude.
I will ignore anything else you say.

[SKKmods]

If you have developed content on multiple game platforms (say Unity, Unreal, CreationEngine) you will understand why Bethesda continues to use CE for OpenWorld RPGs.

 

If you have not then "Bethesda lazy" is good enough, now move on to the next ignorant rant.

[gnarly1]

Stop insulting me now and calling me naive and uneducated;

I said you were naive as you were clearly taking an idealistic view of a domain in which ideals are fairly irrelevant and about which you clearly know very little about. I never said you were uneducated - you adroitly demonstrated that yourself.

 

But let me clearly spell out for you what I do think and was able to prove: you are an unashamed bullsh!tter who tries to appear authoritative regarding a domain you know very little about and when the clear and obvious deficiencies of your opinion are pointed out to you, you try to weasel out of it by using slimey tactics like passing it off as a 'figure of speech'.

 

Clearly you lack the courage to own what you wrote.

 

 

I have been involved with BGS development for 20+ years now

No you haven't. Making mods isn't BGS development. That sounds like a line someone would use to pad their resume.

 

Please continue posting your BS - I will enjoy continuing to expose you as a dishonest bloviator.

[DeckardKain]

 

Stop insulting me now and calling me naive and uneducated;

I said you were naive as you were clearly taking an idealistic view of a domain in which ideals are fairly irrelevant and about which you clearly know very little about. I never said you were uneducated - you adroitly demonstrated that yourself.

 

But let me clearly spell out for you what I do think and was able to prove: you are an unashamed bullsh!tter who tries to appear authoritative regarding a domain you know very little about and when the clear and obvious deficiencies of your opinion are pointed out to you, you try to weasel out of it by using slimey tactics like passing it off as a 'figure of speech'.

 

Clearly you lack the courage to own what you wrote.

 

 

I have been involved with BGS development for 20+ years now

No you haven't. Making mods isn't BGS development. That sounds like a line someone would use to pad their resume.

 

Please continue posting your BS - I will enjoy continuing to expose you as a dishonest bloviator.

 

Well, it was very clear from your very first post that you are here to pick fights. I am just here to chat, and I was simply sharing what kind of theories I have. It doesn't have to be taken seriously. I am often wrong about many things; however, I don't think I am wrong about you. You have severe personality issues

[gnarly1]

I am just here to chat, and I was simply sharing what kind of theories I have.

From what I've read your theories appear to be of the 'kill it before it spreads' kind.

 

It doesn't have to be taken seriously.

 

That's a relief as I, and I'm sure many others, considered them to be rather amusing given how half-baked they are.

 

 

I am often wrong about many things

You don't say. Perhaps you should remember that next time you're tempted to offer an opinion in a domain you're.....naive and uneducated about.

 

 

You have severe personality issues

Do you have theories about mental health disorders too? Given your previous form I imagine they're also disastrously deficient in evidential support and logic.

 

If you're so fragile that someone pointing out the deficiencies in your content causes you to have such an emotional meltdown, perhaps you should avoid discussion forums and social gatherings in general....

[xrayy]

can this game be fixed ?

 

simple answer: no, because the creation engine 2 and its obvious limitations and ancient core holds this game technically back in too many departments. the modding capability does not matter at all if the core is not able to handle it.

fallout 4 had already to suffer from this problem. this time the beth devs just literally worked around the known shortcomings and did a nice, superficial job to cover them.

there is no general fix for that or some means like the sophisticated previs precombine performance optimization from fo4.

this type of performance booster is not available for starfield - not for devs and not for modders. result is an even more clustered game environment combined with an excessive number of loading screens.

 

fixing this mess while delivering what other games already deliver with their own obviously capable and suitable game engines (Odyssey/ubisoft anvil or rdr2) deliver would need an investment that was never made. this release shows beth totally underestimated the demands for a 2023 aaa game release. it was totally clear that this time the game (70bucks AAA) cannot be just about superficial cosmetic repair of an old game engine and fo4 (not even well done) - but exactly this happened!

 

creation engine in 2023 is definitely not under the leading game engines. beth just failed to develop it in time. since sept. 2023 the question of fail or a step forward is impressively answered with starfield including the long list what it does not deliver.

you can fix some issues for pc gamers: reduce the number of loading screens and so on while also reducing performance - but we are talking about a 2023 AAA game with still a 2006 engine core - so even modders will soon scratch their limits because of the limited headroom of this ancient engine core.

 

i am still shocked that the last iteration of the creation engine was obviously just a side/back step and not the vitally essential and expected step forwards. that is at least my impression analyzing starfield and its limitations and the not corresponding hardware requirements.

 

that does not mean that this game cannot be fun for some gamer as we can see. the game delivers much content but simply no quality and no innovation combined with acceptable and reasonable performance.

[xrayy]

If you have developed content on multiple game platforms (say Unity, Unreal, CreationEngine) you will understand why Bethesda continues to use CE for OpenWorld RPGs.

 

If you have not then "Bethesda lazy" is good enough, now move on to the next ignorant rant.

 

i see your point but i also see that beth obviously underestimated the "starfield task" as a whole or this result was calculated. it is in my opinion the same fatal mistake they made with fo76 in 2018 or even worse this time, because this task starts as a new franchise. and it starts with a lack of innovation and quality. this cannot work in my opinion. just a groundbreaking idea makes no groundbreaking game on an unsuitable, dated platform.

 

this time it is not about to "move on" in my opinion because this game was presented as a 2023 AAA 70 bucks rpg and it can not even compete with modded skyrim or modded fallout 4.

what happened in the last 8 years in the beth studios ? were they just overwhelmed? i ask you seriously.

if a (imho) bland, uninspired world, ai and rpg assets and a meaningless story without any highlight is real fun and just size and quantity counts, well this game is made for obviously many people - but not for me. :wink:.

even in 2023 i prefer modded sse and fo4 with a lot less loading screens and a smaller but handcrafted, explorable open world. this is the core feature and the soul of these games. other game studios already showed how to develop a game engine in a meaningful way. this progress seems not to exist in starfield, in a game that appears to be technically ancient without any basic engine related innovations.

modding may be important - but not in a way that basic game features in 2023 obviously cannot be handled by the dev team due to known engine limitations. the only reason why beth act this way is because they can! too many people still accept and even buy their (in the meantime flawed and OBVIOUSLY not at all up to date) products. if this beth formula works why should they invest and update a 2006 game engine core ?

[GeevilEnius]

Thanks for the responses. I really kind of expected Bethesda to just kind of blank canvas a lot of the game, and really have no problem with that. I love all the content and improvements that modders can make that just transforms a game like this. I knew I wouldn't be playing vanilla for long lol!

 

I'm also in agreement that barren rocky worlds should feel barren and rocky, and that actually seems pretty realistic considering the reality of space. But I just keep waiting to find the gems in the barren-ness, and they've never come. I mean, the real Mars has a volcano 100k feet high, and a valley that dwarfs the grand canyon. The real Europa has giant folds and ridges of ice. Titan is dark and hazy and has methane rain and rivers and lakes of hydrocarbons. And that's just our real solar system. What about all the spectacular things that can be imagined? Look at the amazing mind bending landscapes in movies like Interstellar or games like Mass Effect. THAT is what I was hoping for with this game.

 

But I'm really feeling more hopeful now. I bet given enough time, modders will add more of the content I crave.