The Ultimate Debate: Service Rifle or Cowboy Repeater?

[laclongquan]

Survivalist Rifle broke that convenience by changing to 12.7mm. That caliber only has HP and JHP. So the antiarmored aspect was reduced to zero.

Suit its environment, though: all animals, maybe some lightly armored tribals.

[JimboUK]

On 12/3/2023 at 2:05 PM, MuteSignals said:

Definitely plenty around especially later in the game. I will give the Service Rifle this, It can use AP (Armor Piercing) rounds. You're given a Rifle + 72x AP Ammo after Can You Find it in Your Heart? by Ranger Jackson. It can punch DT -15 whilst the highest the Repeater can do is JFP (Hand Load) DT -3.

I save the 5.56 ammo for That Gun, I'm a fan of Blade Runner so that weapon is a must have. 

[Radioactivelad]

On 12/3/2023 at 10:27 PM, laclongquan said:

Survivalist Rifle ... 12.7mm ... So the antiarmored aspect was reduced to zero.

JHP on a 10mm Pistol does enough bonus damage to break even with standard rounds against Combat armor, which is equivalent or higher than most enemies with DT in the game.

With Survivalist + JHP, the armor multiplier is practically irrelevant. You're still getting bonus damage against virtually every enemy in the game. You're only losing damage against high-end power armor, in which standard 12.7mm would be matching the Marksman with AP.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Radioactivelad

[laclongquan]

I am not talking about vanilla design here, which is piss easy so much that HP ammo deal with them all, no need for AP~ I am talking in the context of tougher enemies mods, like Harder than you, or TTW Armored Wasteland etc...

Only in such context does AP show its specialty, and HP show its shortcoming.

[MuteSignals]

Out of curiosity, I wanted to compare the pistol variants of these two ammunition types;
.357 Magnum revolver, Lucky (.357), Police Pistol (.357), 5.56mm Pistol, That Gun (5.56mm).

Best stats have asterisks and are in bold.

Guns Skill: *0*   *0*   *0*   50   50
Strength Required: *3*   *3*   4   6   6
Weight: *2*   2.5   3   5   5
Value: *110*   1500   1000   1200   1750
Ammo Capacity: *6*   *6*   *6*   5   5
Durability: 200   *225*   *225*   175   *225*
Damage: 26   *30*   *30*   28   *30*
Damage per second: 45.5   82.5   60   77   *90*
Crit. Damage: 26   30   *45*   28   30
Crit. Multiplier: x1   *x2.5*   x1   x2   *x2.5*
Fire Rate: 1.8   2.8   2   2.8   *3*
Action Points: 26   *17*   19   21   19
Spread: 0.5   *0.3*   0.5   0.6   0.5

The accessibility and stats of That Gun are a clear winner with Lucky being a close second, if only it was a tad easier to obtain.

Edited December 5, 2023 by MuteSignals

[Radioactivelad]

56 minutes ago, laclongquan said:

I am not talking about vanilla design here, which is piss easy so much that HP ammo deal with them all, no need for AP~ I am talking in the context of tougher enemies mods, like Harder than you, or TTW Armored Wasteland etc...

Only in such context does AP show its specialty, and HP show its shortcoming.

I mean sure, if you're talking balance in a mod that goes out of its way to shift the viabilty of certain equipment, and not necessarily in a way that's any more balanced, that does move things a bit. We could discuss the Repeater and Service Rifle comparison in the context of a mod that gives the service rifle 200dps.

That aside, there's still plenty of use for AP in vanilla before you get a missable unique dlc weapon loaded with ammo that requires a perk to craft. The fact ammo explicitly labeled as "Armor Piercing" matches the highest DT values of enemies with DT in NV (15 and 25) isn't a coincidence.

[JimboUK]

4 hours ago, MuteSignals said:

Out of curiosity, I wanted to compare the pistol variants of these two ammunition types;
.357 Magnum revolver, Lucky (.357), Police Pistol (.357), 5.56mm Pistol, That Gun (5.56mm).

Best stats have asterisks and are in bold.

Guns Skill: *0*   *0*   *0*   50   50
Strength Required: *3*   *3*   4   6   6
Weight: *2*   2.5   3   5   5
Value: *110*   1500   1000   1200   1750
Ammo Capacity: *6*   *6*   *6*   5   5
Durability: 200   *225*   *225*   175   *225*
Damage: 26   *30*   *30*   28   *30*
Damage per second: 45.5   82.5   60   77   *90*
Crit. Damage: 26   30   *45*   28   30
Crit. Multiplier: x1   *x2.5*   x1   x2   *x2.5*
Fire Rate: 1.8   2.8   2   2.8   *3*
Action Points: 26   *17*   19   21   19
Spread: 0.5   *0.3*   0.5   0.6   0.5

The accessibility and stats of That Gun are a clear winner with Lucky being a close second, if only it was a tad easier to obtain.

I think the biggest problem with That Gun is maintaining it, without Jury Rigging it can get expensive in the early game.

[laclongquan]

IIRC in a vanilla FNV session, by the time you pick up That Gun, you should also pick up a few copies of 5.56 pistol, either. So you can use it to repair That Gun, no need for Jury Rigging.

 

[JimboUK]

3 hours ago, laclongquan said:

IIRC in a vanilla FNV session, by the time you pick up That Gun, you should also pick up a few copies of 5.56 pistol, either. So you can use it to repair That Gun, no need for Jury Rigging.

 

I've never found one that early, the earliest I've found one is on Alexander at the 188.

[MuteSignals]

50 minutes ago, JimboUK said:

I've never found one that early, the earliest I've found one is on Alexander at the 188.

Sometimes the jackals/viper you encounter around nipton/novac might have a 5.56mm but they arent usually on the main highway so would require a lil exploring.