Bethesda's New Verified Creator Program

[AugustaCalidia]

18 hours ago, InDarkestNight said:

Yeah, that seems a common fallacy. Just because something is legal, doesn't mean its right.

 

Agreed.  That is exactly why I had distinguished the two concepts by saying "has every right legally and morally" rather than conflating them by saying "has every right legally and therefore morally."

[Dwalin2012]

2 minutes ago, AugustaCalidia said:

Agreed.  That is exactly why I had distinguished the two concepts by saying "has every right legally and morally" rather than conflating them by saying "has every right legally and therefore morally."

You still haven't explained why do you think they have MORAL right to do what they did. Your condescending attitude is ridiculous.

[Guest deleted34304850]

Why is it "immoral" then?

[Dwalin2012]

10 minutes ago, 1ae0bfb8 said:

Why is it "immoral" then?

Sorry, but answering questions with questions is the perfect way to kill any possible discussion. If you were really interested why it is immoral, you would have asked it before I asked my question. And besides, I already said why I think it is immoral in the earlier post: because it's disrespectful towards people who already paid for the game. Unless you intend to ask why being disrespectful is a bad thing to do, there is nothing much left to say.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Dwalin2012

[AugustaCalidia]

2 hours ago, Dwalin2012 said:

You still haven't explained why do you think they have MORAL right to do what they did. Your condescending attitude is ridiculous.

Why do you think Bethesda's actions are disrespectful toward those who have paid for a game license?  That is the more fundamental question.

[InDarkestNight]

We already explained it, and they chose to ignore it. You don't vandalize things people have bought from you. You don't give people permission to do something, then after they've put a mammoth amount of work into something pull the rug out from under them. You also don't forcibly install things into people's computers, especially ones that limit their ability to use other programs, especially superior ones. What would you think if microsoft forcibly installed microsoft office onto everyone's computers one day, and then blocked any other office programs from working (I do happen to own it, and it is inferior to freely available office programs, as evidenced by the fact that I rarely use it despite possessing it). They did try something similar a year or two ago, and everyone started accusing them of acting like a ransomware company!

 

These two people are simple trolls. One is a highly prolific troll that the mods have openly refused to do anything about, and the other reminds me of this one youtuber who was playing a pay-to-win game with modified odds and refuting what the company that made the game was doing was wrong. It later came out that they were actually an employee of that company, who was BEING PAID TO MAKE MISLEADING VIDEOS ABOUT THE GAME. Note how this person just keeps saying 'what they're doing isn't wrong' over and over while refusing to give an explanation. That is highly fishy. Can they make no actual argument? Do they even believe what they're saying? Its starting to look like they don't.

Regardless, this doesn't do anything about bethesda. They're still doing everything under the sun to stop us from modding the game AS THEY GAVE US PERMISSION TO DO, and there's not a damned thing we can do about it (other than boycott them maybe). I mean, we have people on steam making clones of skyrim replicating certain common load orders literally so people can play Skyrim without bethesda trying to stop them. You could literally replicate the looks of these games with Skyrim, and that's 100% intentional! Of course, they can't include vanilla content like quests and the npcs, but its better than nothing. Besides, let's be real, nobody plays Skyrim for Skyrim; you play Skyrim for the mods. Thinking about it, maybe I should go look at that game that was announced some years ago that was clearly inspired by the stealth archer builds rampant in this game. Doubt my gaming computer could even run it even if it was working, but its better than having to dance around bethesda all the bloody time.

[ForcedFarmer]

lol so many of y'all are on the like extremes of this. It's greedy and will hurt the modding community so we shouldn't support it. Don't need to put much thought beyond that truly

[showler]

Just so y'all know, the only mods affected by these updates are SKSE based mods.  Bethesda tolerates, but does not support SKSE.  If anyone was stupid enough to launch some sort of legal attack against Bethesda for mods being broken by these updates the first thing Bethesda would do would be to issue a Cease and Desist to the Script Extender authors.  The Script Extender authors would then pull their work from the internet and Bethesda would no longer have a problem.

[Guest deleted34304850]

6 hours ago, Dwalin2012 said:

Sorry, but answering questions with questions is the perfect way to kill any possible discussion. If you were really interested why it is immoral, you would have asked it before I asked my question. And besides, I already said why I think it is immoral in the earlier post: because it's disrespectful towards people who already paid for the game. Unless you intend to ask why being disrespectful is a bad thing to do, there is nothing much left to say.

but you seem so certain in your assertions, and I'm just wondering about the whole use of the word "moral" in this context.

You can completely s#*! out of answering by using the weary "trolls" defence, but honestly mate, that makes your argument look, well, a bit s#*! really.

I've bought the game, I play the game, i have zero interest in buying any mods for it, but, if mod authors can get a bit of money for their efforts, then good luck to them. However the use of the word "moral" doesn't seem to fit here. Hence my question. If it's not moral, then it's immoral - so HOW is it immoral given you are under no obligation whatsoever to buy any of the stuff they're going to sell?

or, are you a compulsive sort who cannot say no to any old tat Bethesda put their mark on?

[InDarkestNight]

40 minutes ago, showler said:

Just so y'all know, the only mods affected by these updates are SKSE based mods.  Bethesda tolerates, but does not support SKSE.  If anyone was stupid enough to launch some sort of legal attack against Bethesda for mods being broken by these updates the first thing Bethesda would do would be to issue a Cease and Desist to the Script Extender authors.  The Script Extender authors would then pull their work from the internet and Bethesda would no longer have a problem.

How many mods do you know of that DON'T require the script extender? I did try to play without skse when they first started rolling out these updates, but it meant I virtually no mods to use.

Also, if they're only attacking SKSE, then why do models not work if they're more a few versions behind the one the player is running? You can't run any mods, skse or no, that are more than a month or so away from the version you're running. Strangely, LE doesn't have this problem; you can run mods that came out on day 1 just as well as mods coming out now. When I did play SE, I don't recall installing a single mod for an entire year before I quit. This was because MOST MODS DIDN'T DO A SINGLE THING TO MY GAME. They're clearly attacking more than skse. Also, on top of this, is the AE update that force-installed a bunch of cheap worthless garbage into everyone's games that happen to conflict with all the top mods! You can't run frostfall anymore because of the survival mode garbage, which also means you can't run ANY of the food mods out there. The alchemy ingredients added means all perk and alchemy overhauls can't be used (unless they're patched anyway). The golden saints thing means you'll have duplicate monsters and spells if you use just about any spell pack. Then there's the stupid full AE package, which is filled with so much garbage you can't even run so much as a re-texture. To add insult to injury, the CC garbage it does come with CONFLICT WITH EACH OTHER. You straight can't even run your game if you buy that thing. And if that isn't bad enough, due to steam's worthless return policy, YOU CAN'T REMOVE THE EXPANSION ONCE YOU BUY IT, MEANING ONCE YOU'VE BOUGHT IT YOU CAN NEVER EVER PLAY SE AGAIN.

Its so bloody obvious they're trying to stop us from modding (or at least running mods they don't approve of). Its more obvious than freaking climate change what they're doing. Do you deny that too? Why not?

This is why I quit playing SE. I did keep my game from updating, but it meant I couldn't run any new mods for the aforementioned reasons. When I was updating, I was removing half my load order each time due to it NOT WORKING WITH THE LATEST VERSION OF THE GAME. I was also waiting for months on end for skse to be updated just so I could play the game again for a day or two before another update came along and destroyed everything. Besides, I was still using NMM (due to the elaborate load order I had been working on for years), which mangled my game beyond repair. On top of that, I had a guaranteed crash in dragonsreach that wouldn't go away even with a 100% clean install, among numerous other issues that made it impossible to play the game. That's probably my computer's fault, but it still means LE is far more stable on my machine than SE ever was (not that that's saying much of course).

Bethesda hates our slimy guts and it couldn't be more obvious. I'm beyond sick of it, and so is everyone else. Let us play our f*#@ing beloved game in peace. Why are we not allowed to do that? They only want us to play either the vanilla game or with their worthless cheap CC trash that NOBODY WOULD PLAY EVEN IF BETHESDA PAID THEM TO. They forced some of it down our throats, and most people responded to that by STOP PLAYING SE ALL TOGETHER.

We need to genuinely celebrate when they go under, because it'll mean they finally got punished for what they've been doing to us over the past 7 years. It probably won't give us Skyrim back; I doubt whoever buys the IP would remove the AE update. At least justice would finally be served at long last.