Karna5 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 43 minutes ago, RoNin1971 said: I only remember the mirror in Duke Nukem 3D, first level, in the bathroom right next to the (2D sprite) strippers... Duke Nukem 3D was so bad. It shouldn't have been made. It wasn't even as good as the original Duke Nukem, and as I recall, it didn't have working mirrors which made me despise it even more considering its predecessor was a ground breaking game. p.s. A lot of sequels of amazing games weren't nearly as good as their 2d predecessors. Deus Ex Human revolution was a big step down from Deus Ex 1 & 2. Duke Nukem 3D was not even the same league as Duke Nukem. And as much as I like Oblivion, it paled in scope and execution to Daggerfall. And quake was so much worse than Doom 1 & 2 (the 2D doom games). The early days of 3D pc gaming took a big step down just like most films made after 1982 (after blade runner, the last of the non-CGI amazing sci fi films) were horrible. Still, in 2015 through today, there is no longer any excuse for bad CGI nor for mirrors which don't work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qrsr Posted March 14 Author Share Posted March 14 (edited) The games back than and probably the movies as well had no comparison, everything was new in that genre. And thus creativity probably went through the roof everything was new and everything should be the most unique available. This is what i can observe alot of the time. Altoough money was rare, those studios created far more with less money than today. lol. If one creates a sequel one will copy the original thing, game, music, whatever the original instead is without comparison and thus will always be special. I remember FO1 and FO2 were produced, created simultaneously which in turn would lead to the question if both are not just part 1. Paradoxically this would lead to the question if we dont have two times part 1 of Fallout. Both games were special and unique and there was no comparison in that genre. Correct me if im wrong. Edited March 14 by Qrsr 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karna5 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 1 minute ago, Qrsr said: The games back than and probably the movies as well had no comparison, everything was new in that genre. And thus creativity probably went through the roof everything was new and everything should be the most unique available. This is what i can observe alot of the time. If one creates a sequel one will copy the original thing, game, music, whatever the original instead is without comparison and thus will always be special. I remember FO1 and FO2 were produced, created simultaneously which in turn would lead to the question if both are not just part 1. Paradoxically this would lead to the question if we dont have two times part 1 of Fallout. Both games were special and unique and there was no comparison in that genre. Correct me if im wrong. You are sooooo right. I also would go as far as to say that the early day programmers actually learned true programming, thinking in hex, understanding memory and hardware and so much more. Most of the new generations of programmers can't do any of that and instead just use libraries made by other people without understanding how things actually work. This contributes to lack of innovation compared to the early days. So I agree with you that with regard to plot new developers are often lazy, and I think they are often lazy with regard to true software innovation. I remember there was a game called Betrayal at Krondor which struck me as ground breaking because the author had written an amazing and compelling trilogy of novels called "The Magician" which started with two ten year old boys who were friends and grew apart each to become a different type of hero. When the author decided to write a sequel, he chose to make a half-book/half-PC Game called Betrayal at Krondor. While it wasn't amazing on a technical level by today's expectations, it was an example of a novelist trying to use the medium of PC games to make something new. I don't wish to slam the whole industry of PC gaming because there still are true developers in the old sense of the word. For instance, in Horizon Zero Dawn two different teams of developers worked together with their own strengths to make something close to perfect. One team worked on the graphical and game engine while the other worked on the story and execution. This is a case where one team did become expert in programming while the overview team worked closely to get something that worked well and with what they wanted. But usually, nowadays, programmers just recycle the same old engine, often something designed to work on a cell phone, instead of learning to program something new and push the limits of what can be created. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qrsr Posted March 14 Author Share Posted March 14 (edited) Quote You are sooooo right. I also would go as far as to say that the early day programmers actually learned true programming, thinking in hex, understanding memory and hardware and so much more. Most of the new generations of programmers can't do any of that and instead just use libraries made by other people without understanding how things actually work. I have one good example of good games, The Last Of Us, look who produced it ... many of those "kind of" programmers probably create games (great games) in their free time, just for fun. If not working on games i can see alot working for high tech comp, rocket science agencies etc. so very intelligent beeings which somehow create new things for the masses which truely shine above all just by precision, complexity, moral heavy story lines, etc. like a good book just on another level along with some freelancers who are gifted aswell just to generalize abit. It just works, works if you copy great work without referencing and see what happens ... Yeah Horizon is another timeless gem, just another level of gaming. Still i would say the games before 2000 were far better in far higher concentration in quantity per time. Which truely shows some kind of "spin" in terms of creativity over the last decades. Maybe less adaptation as well. Games have become nothing special anymore. Edited March 15 by Qrsr 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 Well, TBH they had no choice as memory space and storage space was smaller than a postage stamp. If your code wasn't optimized it simply wasn't going to make it to the store shelves.   Today, memory and storage space is a non-starter.   Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextTurnLeft Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 It would barely take any time for scrapping things. Metal could be scrappable and recyclable if you found the right equipment and tools, and could even be done on a local scale if you got a steel mill back to functioning. This is an issue I believe is well stuck in the Forged raiders. Missed opportunity. Scrap papers and posters would've been excellent as fire fuel, so most old papers and files shouldve been gone a long time ago. Realistically it would be a pain, but cleaning up and reusing materials from trash and rubble piles would be possible. Unfortunately, it would take a recycling plant and then a fully functioning cement/asphalt plant just to have suitable materials for reconstruction of buildings, and then you have an entire major city on the east coast. Yeah, I find the intact buildings a major flaw in F4. Probably because its just for the sake of gameplay and exploration, which i dont find bad at all, but if most of the skyscrapers are still standing after a blast wave, then the pre-war architects in boston must have been descendants of the gods. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
363rdChemicalCompany Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 22 minutes ago, NextTurnLeft said: It would barely take any time for scrapping things. Metal could be scrappable and recyclable if you found the right equipment and tools, and could even be done on a local scale if you got a steel mill back to functioning. This is an issue I believe is well stuck in the Forged raiders. Missed opportunity. Scrap papers and posters would've been excellent as fire fuel, so most old papers and files shouldve been gone a long time ago. Realistically it would be a pain, but cleaning up and reusing materials from trash and rubble piles would be possible. Unfortunately, it would take a recycling plant and then a fully functioning cement/asphalt plant just to have suitable materials for reconstruction of buildings, and then you have an entire major city on the east coast. Yeah, I find the intact buildings a major flaw in F4. Probably because its just for the sake of gameplay and exploration, which i dont find bad at all, but if most of the skyscrapers are still standing after a blast wave, then the pre-war architects in boston must have been descendants of the gods. Actually the blast wave does not pose as much of a threat as most people seem to think. Modern steel reinforced tall building will only be topple in relative proximity to ground zero ) depending on the size of the blast of course. But even a very powerful nuke builds a mile away will be stanidng. it is the windows that will be blown out the glasshards travelling at hundred of mph that will be a threat. Rememeb if you will that a steel reinforced concrete bridge at Hiroshima was only 200 feet from ground zer and stood and was usable after the blast. Now in all fairness buildings are not as robust as bridges but any distance really helps. It is time that would have topples those buildings especially in a seaside town like Boston as corrosion of the steel skeletons will be unavoidable. Exceptionally well built modern construction could still be standing in an arid area 200 yrs later but regular buildings built to a budget and/or near the sea would topple within a few decades of maintenance stoppage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextTurnLeft Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 9 minutes ago, 363rdChemicalCompany said: It is time that would have topples those buildings especially in a seaside town like Boston as corrosion of the steel skeletons will be unavoidable. Exceptionally well built modern construction could still be standing in an arid area 200 yrs later but regular buildings built to a budget and/or near the sea would topple within a few decades of maintenance stoppage. hah pfft, "arid", talk about rain, which is something you dont see in the capital wasteland mind you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted March 22 Share Posted March 22 You need knowledge to scrap things.  The average schmuck in a post-apocalyptic world won't have that knowledge. They will need to learn it from the very few who actually possess it - which leads me to the next point. You look to gain access to an existing shelter today you need two things: a) Money b) A skillset that is usable in a post-apocalyptic world. The vast majority of people will fail with b).  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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