Alleged Lore inconsistencies in the Fallout tv show

[FloofMother]

I'm sort of mad while making this post. Cards on the table, I suppose. The story goes, I see a mod that looks kind of cool, I check it out, and its existence is meant to "fix" inconsistencies in the fallout timeline that were brought about by the fallout tv show

 

• Robert House calculated the day the bombs would fall (+1), but the show reveals that he attended a meeting where Vault-Tec simply told him they were going to do it.
• Mothership Zeta suggests that Zetans dropped the bombs. The show reveals it was most likely Vault-Tec.
• Ghouls are confirmed to go feral, at least in some instances. There may be a relation to a new yellow drug that was introduced (possibly FEV).
• In Fallout 4, roughly half the endings involve the Sole Survivor destroying the Prydwen. The show decides the Prydwen survives the events of the Commonwealth.
• Similarly, regardless of what the Courier does during the events in the Mojave, New Vegas is ravaged by a war involving the NCR.
• There's an infamous vault chalkboard with a post-war timeline that depicts "The Fall of Shady Sands" in 2277, followed by a mushroom cloud. Whether the Fall refers to the nuke or a more gradual, economic decline, there is no such Fall depicted during the events of Fallout New Vegas. To the contrary, the multiple characters that are from Shady Sands or speak of it imply that the capital of the NCR is, in fact, an economic powerhouse, even if it won't last. Personally we believe this was a production error and that the chalkboard was supposed to say 2281 or 2282, but we can't prove that.
• The show also retcons that Shady Sands was only the first capital of the New California Republic, and at some point, prior to the nuke, the capital was changed to be in the ruins of Los Angeles, aka the Boneyard.

1. The show reveals that Shady Sands was nuked by Vault-Tec, and referencing the chalkboard and Maximus's backstory, it must've happened sometime between 2277 and 2286. If it happens before 2281, it would be a significant retcon of the major faction of Fallout New Vegas, but Todd Howard clarified in an interview after the show came out that it happened after 2281, if you want to take his word for it.

(I copy and pasted this directly from the mod's page, sorry if this looks weird now, I can't really do anything about it)

 

All but one of these alleged "inconsistencies" are not so, and I will explain why:

 

House had already calculated the end of the world by this point in the timeline, and vault tec probably didn't drop the bombs, seeing as one of their executive's daughters were outside when the bombs hit, along with countless personnel and a few unfinished vaults

 

see above

 

this is not an inconsistency, it's literally just describing a plot element from the series and show. how someone wrote this and said "this is a timeline inconsistency" boggles the mind

 

the identity of the airship shown in the series is not necessarily confirmed to be the prydwen (one source names it as the cassawennan), and even then, the canon survival of the brotherhood in fallout is nothing new, nor is it inconsistent with the lore

 

See above, but also the denizens of the divide are cited as an apocalyptic level threat to the mojave, even with a full ncr victory, this is not an inconsistency, it would be following up on foreshadowing. in addition, the "evidence" for this claim is a highly stylized outro for the credits that has been inaccurate before (see the portrayal of the observatory in the credits vs the actual thing in the show)

 

the vault chalkboard is easy to understand for those who are capable of reading and basic critical thinking, to assume that, on a timeline, an event further down the line probably happens AFTER the thing that precedes it, shocking, I know. in addition, things like "the fall of rome" refer to a period rather than any one event, so this is not shocking or inconsistent with what we already know (it's also worth noting that 2277 is apparently a nostalgic year in the NCR judging by the wistful "spirit of 2277" graffiti you can find in the mojave, which would make sense if it was the last year before it started declining, and also may be the year of tandi's death, though I'm probably wrong about that particular detail)

 

this doesn't even make sense, the show takes places years after new vegas, logically they changed the capital after the events of that game, either due to the success or failure of the mojave campaign. the ACTUAL retcon that happened was its location, which was actually a good move both logically and thematically, because it didn't make sense that a (relatively) small county in the sierra nevadas had two vaults dedicated to it, while the LA metropolitan area had 0 (the cathedral was a display piece and as such doesn't count) fallout 2 also previously retconned it to be further north than in fallout 1, so this is not the first time that this has happened. it also didn't make sense that the expansionist NCR never found the vault that was literally right next to their capital so the main quest of fallout 2 could make sense, now it actually does make sense why vault 13's location is still a mystery. thematically, it's the new emerging from the cocoon of the old, so it's a better choice than "they just set up shop in the middle of a desert lol"

 

this also doesn't make any sense, and I'm not sure where they get their timeline from

 

 

I will explain why I got mean about halfway through

Now for the conclusion. Why am I typing this here, you may ask? because I was replied to by the mod author, who said that my correction of their assumption that these were inconsistencies was simply me doing the same thing they were doing by the mod. I replied saying that this was not the same thing at all, and that these things were not in fact inconsistencies. They then decided to implicitly insult my intelligence by flippantly saying that I was trying to debate them on semantics rather than engaging with anything I said. I replied again because they had at this point amended their stickied post with a passive aggressive jab at my comment, which I said was not cool and didn't appreciate, and this led to them deleting the entire thread and removing my ability to comment, but not before directly insulting me, whether to save face from being reported, or something, I do not know, but the fact that they left an insulting comment, only to delete the thread right after kind of proves that they wanted to emotionally hurt and/or embarrass me before they removed any trace of dissent from their page. I won't name the mod author, but you can find it if you're clever enough. I don't wanna start drama or anything like that, I was just really kind of hurt and frustrated by this entire exchange and needed to talk about it, and I figured I could also have a productive discussion about these "inconsistencies" in the process to see if I may truly be wrong, because the bad faith nature of my first interaction on this subject makes it difficult to tell now

 

ps: this was not the first time I had interacted with them, I had previously made a comment almost exclusively praising them on their youtube channel, with a caveat that I didn't agree with their "bethesda fallouts bad" takes but otherwise liked their content, and generally kept things cordial. they proceeded to respond completely ignoring what I'd said, argued that I was trying to use semantics against them, and them they accused me of acting in bad faith and being blinded by nostalgia (my first fallout was new vegas btw, so this was very funny) I feel I was exceedingly civil in that forum by pretending that interaction never happened, but lo and behold they reacted with the same vehemence because someone dared to correct them on fallout lore.

 

I don't know if this will make it past a moderator, but I do want to say thank you to whoever read this in full, I feel better with the knowledge that at least one other person understands what just happened

[showler]

Re: The Ghoul drug.  This could be a retcon, or it could be a drug discovered sometime after 2281 that helps ghouls who are going feral to stave off the decline.  I'm not sure they have clarified it enough in the show to be sure either way.

Re: the chalkboard.  They are making excuses for this, but it is almost certainly a production error.  I say this because they also commented on the "Great Plague of 2277" during which Vault 33 was on lockdown and Rose MacLean died.  This was, in all probability, a cover story for Rose leaving the vault and Hank pursuing her and her subsequent "death".  This seems to confirm that the bombing of Shady Sands was set in 2277 by the TV show writers.  However, this would be a mistake, not a retcon and they'll gloss over it to make the timelines work.

Re: The Prydwen.  It very well could be the Prydwen as photos suggest (although I also wouldn't assume that wasn't another mistake...or reused assets).  The show also mentioned that the information and orders to find Wilzig came from "clerics" in the Commonwealth.  This indicates that the East Coast Brotherhood not only survived Fallout 4 but also expanded (and went harder into the pseudo-religious nonsense) so pretty much any ending that involved the destruction of the Prydwen is very unlikely to be canon.

From what I could see there is only one serious retcon from the show, which is the status of Vault-tec pre-war and their motivations for creating the Vaults.  In the show Vault-tec is in financial trouble because they are having problems selling spaces in the Vaults due to the possibility of peace.  The Societal Preservation Program is an idea they propose later in order to get the other big corporations to sign on to taking control of some of the vaults.  Although, there is a mysterious person or persons watching the final meeting which suggests some further depth to that part of the story.

In the games we've always been told that Vault-tec was incredibly successful and that, while they did sell some spots in the Vaults, most of the Vaults were populated by people selected through a government funded program.  It was the government that paid for the Vaults and Vault-tec got a sweetheart deal because they were part of the Enclave and the deal was made with the part of the government that was Enclave controlled.  More importantly, the Societal Preservation Program was the original reason for building the vaults, which is why they weren't selling spots in most Vaults.  The people selected for the vaults were selected for their usefulness in the experiments in the vaults.  You can't do that while selling spots. 

"You've got to remember, though.  The vaults were never meant to save anyone."

[JimboUK]

The conversation around this show has been toxic on social media, at times worse than the one around Star Wars. Before the show started I'd already decided to treat the show as its own thing separate from the games, as such I didn't really care what liberties they took with the lore and was able to discuss it dispassionately, sadly there were few sane people to discuss it with. 

I agree with Showler on Shady Sands, someone screwed up, it happens and it's the only answer that doesn't require mental gymnastics to explain, the second season will be interesting, if House is alive then that makes the House ending in New Vegas canon. 

Chris Avellone has some interesting thoughts on it....

https://chrisavellone.medium.com/fallout-apocrypha-tv-series-review-part-1-c4714083a637

https://chrisavellone.medium.com/fallout-apocrypha-tv-series-review-part-2-1744b68fe4f2

[Fkemman11]

It had "moments". From a lore standpoint (not really my strong suit. but okay), it felt like they were saying "Yeah, we want to pay a bit of homage to the original and you as a fan should love us for it. But it's ours and we can damn well do as we please". It's a kids ride at the FO theme park that teases tiny flashes of brilliance that ultimately don't materialize into anything very entertaining or interesting. For me in particular, their portrayal of the BOS as incompetent idiots in PA with no real sense of honor or purpose- however flawed it may be- felt very disingenuous and lazy as hell as did the big reveal that Vault-Tec had graduated from sadistic psychopathic scientist to genocidal maniac overlord with some middle management flunky as it's representative. Could be wrong about something here since I watched it once only paying half attention as soon as I started seeing stuff that just made my eyes roll. I think had they shown the awesome power and sheer terror of encountering a single Death Claw in a short scene, this series would have gained somewhat better reviews from everyone. Maybe they'll get it done in season 2.

[showler]

That portrayal of the Brotherhood was limited to a single Knight and was there in order to get Maximus into Power Armor immediately.  No other Brotherhood member acted the same.

[Fkemman11]

Yeah, there were many instances like that where it was very convenient to the plot even if it meant breaking with established lore without giving much of an alternative plausible explanation. Maximus brings back the wrong head to purposely try and deceive the BOS full well expecting the worst if found out- which is what should have happened. What happens instead is that the elder claps him on the shoulder telling him he's just what the BOS needs as a leader and that together they can rule the wastes?

[showler]

There's a pretty substantial history of Brotherhood Elders seizing, or trying to seize, power when they are at odds with the established leaders.  I'm not at all surprised that someone on the West Coast would try to steal back control from Arthur Maxson in the Commonwealth.

[fraquar]

Todd will tell you Fallout TV is canon (for whatever that means) but the reality is whatever is considered canon is what Todd says is.

How canon can have two different versions of "canon" content have completely different timelines for the initiation of the nuclear holocaust is beyond me.    

I guess it's because "Todd says so"...

0900 in Boston is 0600 in Los Angeles.    How do you portray a party sometime around noon (1500 Boston time) and NOT already have word that the entire East Coast is already obliterated - even if it was a chain event?  

Edited August 2 by fraquar

[HeyYou]

Beth is notorious for playing pretty fast and loose with their own canon.....