Will I Need TWO new PCs?

[dferstat]

My problem

As I discussed elsewhere, some Fallout 4 mods may never be updated to NextGen, while others may never be confirmed as compatible. However, some mods, such as Fallout London (FOLON), will only be NextGen.

My current PC is struggling with FO4 already, and it's not going to be able to run the newer games I want to play, such as Cyberpunk 2077, and Starfield. As a result, I'll need a new PC, and soon. For my new PC, it seems I have a decision to make.

Do I install the current GOG FO4 (OldGen) and migrate my profiles, but be unable to play FOLON? Or do I install (when BethSoft finalise it) the NextGen from Steam, and run the very real risk that some (most?) of my profiles will be unplayable?

According to this thread, Vortex can't cope with more than one install of FO4. I can understand why. For each active game extension, Vortex records one game directory.

 

A possible solution

Now, a game extension contains the name of the game, the filename for the executable, the relevant rules for handling mods (such as what sub-folders to install mods to) and the game's page on Nexus, so that Vortex can download mods. It may contain other info, but, for the purposes of my discussion, these are the relevant ones.

What if we copied the existing FO4 extension, and created another FO4 extension? It could appear as, say, Fallout 4 - NextGen, or Fallout 4 - Backup, or Fallout 4 - Spare. All the content of the extension would be unchanged. But to Vortex, it would appear as a different game, allowing us to assign a different game installation.

 

Possible issues

Save game location is set by the game (eg My Games/Fallout 4/) but as each profile has its own unique sub-folder, I don't see this a major issue. Profile location is set by Vortex (possibly from game name?) and it may be possible to sort these separately. If not, again, each profile has a unique sub-folder.

Each FO4 install would be sharing the same folders for downloaded and installed mods. (You don't want to download a large mod twice if you can avoid it). However, downloading and installing mods are processes that don't directly affect profiles, or game folders, so I don't see a risk to one FO4 install by downloading mods while a different FO4 install is active.

Enabling mods should be safe, as mods would only be enabled in the install folder associated with the currently active extension.

 

A request for help

I'd be grateful for some informed feedback on both my initial query (which FO4 to install) and on my possible solution.

 

Thank you for your patience, and, in advance, for your help.

[dizietemblesssma]

In theory a custom extension might help, but why not create a second user?  Vortex is a multi user program and the second user will have its own settings and you can manage a different version of the game that way.

 

diziet

[dferstat]

Not sure I see how having a different user account will allow a single Vortex installation to handle two FO4 installs.

[showler]

Vortex stores all the settings in the Windows user account folders.

Separate user accounts have completely different settings in Vortex.

Therefore, having a second Windows account means that you can point Vortex to a different installation of the game, different download folder, different staging folder, etc.  They will be completely separated.

[dferstat]

@showler

 

I'm sorry, but I don't see how this would work.

 

Remember this:

"Each FO4 install would be sharing the same folders for downloaded and installed mods."

 

If I create a new user account, Vortex would have to create all its various databases afresh. This includes the records of which files I've downloaded, and which of those I have installed. For some mods, I have multiple installations for different selections of options. For example, I might have a settlement mod with patches for PRP or the Desperadoes overhaul. The only guide showing which entry in my list of mods relates to which mod folder in my deployments folder is stored in an account-specific database. It follows, then, that Vortex on a new user account will be unable to re-create this.

Even if I was able to get Vortex to re-create these from my existing downloads and deployment folders, any changes through downloading and installing new mods would be local to this new user account. On returning to my old user account, I'd then have to try to refresh the databases again so that I could see the mods I'd installed while on the new account.

This does not seem to me to be feasible or safe.

[showler]

Then I don't understand what you want since a FOLON install will not be able to use almost any mods that work on a regular FO4 game.  Why would you need to share anything?

[dferstat]

Firstly, unless the FOLON team have completely changed the way that weapons and armour work, I know of no reason why these sorts of mods, for example, should not work with FOLON. Note that the team has released some weapons and armour from FOLON for use in FO4. I'm quite certain that many other FO4 mods could be run with FOLON. Whether they should, lore-wise, is up for debate, but some will definitely run.

Secondly, FOLON isn't the only mod that requires, or will require, FO4 Next-Gen. Sooner or later I, and many other others, will want a NextGen install, but will also want to be able run mods which were written for OldGen, but which will run in NextGen. However, some mods will still require an OldGen install.

 

To summarise:

Some mods will require OldGen.

Some (a slowly increasing number) will require NextGen.

Many mods will run on both.

 

If I don't have NextGen installed, I'll be unable to run FOLON, and many future mods.

If I don't have OldGen installed, I can probably kiss goodbye to many (possibly most) of my profiles and their saved games.

If I want to avoid having to download, and install, literally thousands of mods again, I'm going to need to have these available on the same user account.

 

[showler]

Sharing a download folder is not a problem.  That location is a user choice. 

Sharing a staging folder probably won't work, but wouldn't work with a new extension either.  You will need the same mod installed twice for each version of the game you want to run.

The problem with most mods and FOLON would be that if a mod adds a new armour or weapon and either places it in the world or in a leveled list, that new item will be in Boston rather than London.  You will only be able to acquire it through console commands.

[dferstat]

"Sharing a download folder is not a problem.  That location is a user choice."

Sharing the download folder is, indeed, not the problem. Sharing the download database is.

"Sharing a staging folder probably won't work, but wouldn't work with a new extension either."

Why not? Why couldn't Vortex write to the same databases, and use the same folders, while the new extension is active? If the only difference between the extension-specific databases is the stored address of the FO4 executable, why not write to the databases and folders, given that nothing else will be doing so at the same time?

"The problem with most mods and FOLON would be that if a mod adds a new armour or weapon and either places it in the world or in a leveled list, that new item will be in Boston rather than London.  You will only be able to acquire it through console commands."

That's only a problem with accessing the content, not with the content itself. Most content that is not tied to the Commonwealth or DLC maps, or to vanilla quests or NPCs, is, I expect, is going to work fine. In cases like you describe, many people may choose to use an ESP explorer.

 

What I'd really like is for someone familiar with Vortex to tell me why my suggestion, a second FO4 extension, can't work.

[showler]

Well, I'll let better minds get into specifics, but it begins with the fact that when a new game is set up (and the second installation would have to be treated as a different game) the staging folder you choose has to be completely empty.  So if it already contains information from the other install it won't be accepted.