Namiricorn Posted July 7 Share Posted July 7 So I'm trying to work out what is causing most of my merchants and Alvor/Gerdur's starting gear trade to make my whole game crash. Merchants I know work are Hod and Faendar, which are ironically the only merchants who I have edited with mods (aside from adding a hairstyle). Merchants that definitely don't work are Lucan, Belethor and Arcadia. Arcadia does have a mod that adds a key to her attic, but I don't think this is an issue since it isn't only affecting her and also I'm sure I've used her shop since I installed that (though not 100% sure). I have a lot of mods installed and no idea when the problem started because nothing I installed or edited myself should be editing them and I have been testing what the mods actually do and apparently at no point did I trade with these merchants (it didn't help that Hod was working, who I traded with multiple times while testing the mods). Deactivating the last 20ish mods I installed di not fix the problem, and the 50/50 method won't work since it'll deactivate patches I have made and therefore cause other things to break. SSEEdit shows no mods editing any of the affected NPCs or their containers or level item lists (though I can't find the name of Gerdur/Alvor's starting item container) that I can see. I also couldn't see any quests or anything referencing the merchants or their containers that might be editing them. I tried enabling Papyrus logging but I don't really understand what I'm looking at and the last few entries are different on every log. I am using MO2 and everything is installed on a partitioned Z drive. Any idea what kind of mods I should be looking at or anywhere else to look in SSEEdit that might help me find the problem? Thanks --------------------------------------------------- External mod list (I'm still adding things, this is just where I have gotten to so far, also it doesn't show my ESLs I have made in SSEEdit, but I made them so I know that they haven't edited anything that might have caused this): Spoiler (3) Community Overlays 1 - Main - CBBE 2K Abyss Address Library for SKSE Plugins Adopt Aventus Aretino Adopt Aventus Aretino - Fully Voiced Patch - Simdrew1993 Aldamar - Druid Mushroom Home Andrealphus Tweaks - Only Dead Lover's Cause Inheritance Letters Animation Motion Revolution Animation Queue Fix Arcane Mastery - Spells Vol. 1 Arcano - Curse Magic Archery Gameplay Overhaul Archery Target Retexture 2k Arclight Armored Empire Ask Innkeepers To Show Room SE Assorted Fabric - Modder's Resource Astronomer's Loft -- Small Loft Library Player Home in Whiterun Auto Recharge Weapons SE Autographs Aw Additional Follower Voice types (WIP) - Modders Resource Aymar and friends - Adoptable Elven Children (RS Children based) Base Object Swapper BeastHHBB - Khajiit and Argonian content - player character and NPC replacer Become a Bard Better Blades Better Courier Better Jumping AE Better Skyrim Parties Better Third Person Selection (AE - SE) Better Wedding Guests Blowing in the Wind Boats - Operational Animated Travel BodySlide and Outfit Studio Bug Fixes SSE - Anniversary Edition (1.6.629.0 and later) Build your Hearthfire homes with gold Butterflies Unchained (ESL Version) Buyable Home Patch for Elysium Estate SSE Caliente's Beautiful Bodies Enhancer -CBBE- Campfire 1.12.1SEVR Release Cathedral - Water Caught Red Handed - Quest Expansion Children of the North Chooey's Choice Requirements Choose Your Own Arch-Mage Circlet Gemstones Fix Circlets with Mage Hoods Climates Of Tamriel-SE Cloaks and Capes - Crafting Only Cloaks and Capes SMP College Fashions College of Winterhold Entry Requirements Companions Questline Tweaks - Beta Complete Widescreen Fix 219 for Vanilla and SkyUI Comprehensive Attack Rate Patch - SKSE ConsoleUtilSSE ConsoleUtilSSE NG Convenient Horses COR_Sacrosanct Patch COtR - HQ Characters creation addon for RM Creation Club: _ResourcePack Creation Club: ccBGSSSE001-Fish Creation Club: ccBGSSSE025-AdvDSGS Creation Club: ccBGSSSE037-Curios Creation Club: ccQDRSSE001-SurvivalMode Custom Cubemaps by fadingsignal Custom Skills Framework Cynn's Vlindrel Hall Daedric Shrines 2 k Destination Weddings Destroy the Thieves Guild SE DG Alternate Route Dirt - HD Texture Replacer with Parallax Disenchant Everything Diverse Dragons Collection SE DLC: Dawnguard DLC: Dragonborn DLC: HearthFires Dwemer Pipework Reworked 5 Dwemer Pipework Reworked 5 - hotfix Dwemer Pipework Reworked 5 - hotfix 2 Dylbills Papyrus Functions Dynamic Activation Key Dynamic Collision Adjustment Elegant Jewelry - SE Elysium Estate Exterior Path Elysium Estate SSE EoW - Shadowgreen Refuge SE Especially Special Dragonsreach Even More Brows - HPH - COtR EVG Animated Traversal Extended Encounters Extended Vanilla Menus Face Discoloration Fix Fangs and Eyes - A Vampire Appearance Mod Fashions of the Monks and Priests Faster HDT-SMP Frankly HD Dawnguard Armor and Weapons Fuz Ro D-oh - Silent Voice Gemstones Remade - Standalone GKB Waves Reborn gkbwaves Growl 3.0.0 Halls of Dovahndor Reborn Hardy Hares Headhunter - Bounties Redone Heavy Armory - New Weapons Heavy New Legion Highly Improved Male Body Overhaul hotfix 3 Housecarls Have Lives - No Sword Version HR's Dwemer Cube Home HS Player Homes - Hjerim HS Player Homes - Honeyside HS Player Homes - Proudspire Manor HS Resources HS Whiterun - Jorrvaskr HSRiverwood - Alvor and Sigrid's House HSRiverwood - Faendal's House Hunting in Skyrim 2.0 Beta 1.8 Hvergelmir's Aesthetics - Beards I'm Walkin' Here Immersive Citizens - AI Overhaul Immersive Equipment Displays Immersive Farm Immersive Interactions - Animated Actions Immersive Thieves Guild Hideout Improved College Entry iNeed - Food, Water and Sleep - Continued Jabber's 2K Archery Targets JContainers SE Jewelry Limiter - Another Multiple Rings and Amulets Mod JK's Fort Dawnguard JK's The Bards College Jorrvaskr Quarters Killable Graybeards Koralina's Makeup for COtR KS Hairdos - HDT SMP (Physics) KS Hairdos SSE KS long hair for males patch KxK Apocrypha Home Laboratorium Lake Haven Lamenthia's Marks of Beauty Lollygaggin' - Vanilla Guard Armor Replacer Lovely Makeup - Racemenu Overlays LOVERBOY LOVERGIRL Skin - HD Complexion for Women Luminescent Luna Moths Lunaris MAW Assets 1.1 MCM Helper Missing Follower Dialogue Edit Missing Follower Dialogue Edit - USSEP Patch Modern Brawl Bug Fix Mona Alta Moonlight Tales Mini - Main 1.25 More Faction Idles More Sensible Quartermasters More Tavern Idles - SSE Port Multiple Floors Sandboxing Natura Natural Beauty Makeup - Racemenu Overlays Natural Waterfalls Necrom Necrotic Nether's Follower Framework New Legion Nightingale Hall Restored - Karliah As A Follower Ni'Kaur Kasol - An Orc-Themed Starter Home No More Random Guild Thieves No Player Home Requirements No To Nocturnal Noble Skyrim Mod HD-2K Northborn Scars Open Animation Replacer Opulent Thieves Guild Orc Strongholds - Dushnikh Yal Paired Animation Improvements PapyrusUtil SE - Modders Scripting Utility Functions Particle Patch for ENB powerofthree's Papyrus Extender powerofthree's Tweaks Pride of the Companions - Shields of Jorrvaskr Project New Reign - Nemesis Unlimited Behavior Engine Race Compatibility Dialogue SSE RaceCompatibility with fixes for SSE RaceMenu RaceMenu High Heels (Height Fixes) Ragdoll Friction and Edits RB - Light - Main File RB - Medium - Optional Real Armies Realistic AI Detection 3 - Medium Interior Medium Exterior Realistic Horse Breeds by KrittaKitty Realistic Husky Sounds SE Realistic Lighting Overhaul (RLO) SSE All-In-One Installer Realistic Nord Ships 2.0 Reasonable Silver Hand RedBag's Dragonsreach Restore Unused Vanilla Spells Restoring the Aretino Residence Ritual Armor of Boethiah for SE Riverwood Redone Robes Retexture SE RowBoats and Oars of Skyrim RS Children Overhaul RtAR - RLO Patch Run and Walk at your Pace Ruska - Riften Player Home RUSTIC DAEDRA SSE - VANILLA - 2K Sacrosanct 6.0.0 SavrenX Auriel's Bow ScandaNordic Mountains - HD Mountain Textures - 8K 4K 2K - Parallax Scrambled Bugs Silver Hand Armored Simple Dual Sheath Simple Forsworn - SE Port Simple NPC Outfit Manager Simply Knock SE 1.0.3 Release SimplyKnockSE SKSE64 2.2.6 DLL Skaal You Need - Skaal house and follower SSE Skin Feature Overlays SE - Freckles Scars Birthmarks Stretch Marks Moles and More for Face and Body RaceMenu Overlays Sky Haven Temple - Interior Overhaul and Player Home Skyrim 3D Rocks SkyUI Snowberry Cottage - Rebuild Hroggar's House Soaking Wet for 1.6.629 and newer Solitude Temple Frescoes Sons of Skyrim Sound Record Distributor Spell Perk Item Distributor Stalker's Refuge - Vampire Player Home Static Mesh Improvement Mod Statues of High Hrothgar Stellaris Stendarr Paladin Armor Set Stormcloak Hero Armory Summermyst - Enchantments of Skyrim SV Beards SE The Eyes of Beauty - Ai Remastered The Paarthurnax Dilemma The Ravens Breezehome SE The Soul Cage - A Soul Cairn house Thieves Guild Reformation - Taking Care of Business Thieves Guild Requirements SE Thieves Guild Requirements SE - Droppable Stones Touring Carriages Tragedian's Fabulous Followers AIO Truly Neutral Prisoners UIExtensions Unique Bows Collection Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch - USSEP USSEP Optional Patch Vampire Clothing Expansion Vampire Stakes - Weapon Pack Veydogolt - Grass and Plants Only Vibrant weapons - Fire Frost Shock VMHD - All Races - 2K VolcanicHeatHaze-by-fadingsignal.rar Water for ENB We Are The Music Makers Weapons Armor Clothing and Clutter Fixes Wedding Clothing Retexture Wintersun 3.2.0 Wintersun patch Witerun gras 2.0 sse Wolfpaint - Face - Racemenu Overlays - Male and Female Xavier - Chooey's Choice Xavier TDN Necromancer Follower SSE - Original or Default Body options - v3.3.0 XP32 Maximum Skeleton Special Extended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorrp10 Posted July 8 Share Posted July 8 Define "crashing game"? Crashing when you enter the shop and see the merchant? Crashing when talking to one? Crashing when you enter the trading UI? Crashing while going through their inventory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namiricorn Posted July 8 Author Share Posted July 8 (edited) 17 hours ago, scorrp10 said: Define "crashing game"? Crashing when you enter the shop and see the merchant? Crashing when talking to one? Crashing when you enter the trading UI? Crashing while going through their inventory? Crashing when I enter the UI. For shopkeepers it is when I ask what they have for sale, with Alvor/Gerdur I sit through the entire intro scene and then it goes kapoo the second they attempt to open their trade with me But I'm thinking if the problem was the UI itself I wouldn't be able to trade with anyone at all? Edited July 8 by Namiricorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorrp10 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 Are you crashing instantly upon entering the trade UI? Where is your mouse cursor at the time? You click on the dialogue option of what they got an your cursor stays in that same spot as trade window opens? Can you try,, the moment you click the dialogue, move mouse cursor to top or bottom of screen? Cause if you are crashing upon entering only SOME merchant trade windows, you potentially have a corrupt mesh or texture of some item(s) that they offer. And upon entering the trade window, your mouse cursor is on one of those items. If you rapidly moved cursor to top upon clicking diualogue, and game did not crash, try mousing over items offered. And see if game crashes upon mousing over something specific. Also, try this: launch game, and from main menu, open console and type in 'coc riverwood'. You will spawn outside Riverwood with a brand new game. Try going to Lucan's shop and trading with him. See if you still crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namiricorn Posted July 9 Author Share Posted July 9 16 hours ago, scorrp10 said: Also, try this: launch game, and from main menu, open console and type in 'coc riverwood'. You will spawn outside Riverwood with a brand new game. Try going to Lucan's shop and trading with him. See if you still crash. I have been using a fresh game every time I test anything anyway so yes I still crash 16 hours ago, scorrp10 said: Can you try,, the moment you click the dialogue, move mouse cursor to top or bottom of screen? This didn't seem to help unfortunately. However, I just got an idea. Seeing as it seems like it's probably a stock issue, I'll start by clearing his shop and seeing if that works. If it does, I can slowly add items back into his shop to narrow down the problem. Will update if it works or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namiricorn Posted July 9 Author Share Posted July 9 Gosh darn it all he has is VendorItemGold, the riverwood perk and one book which I know is working because it's a permanent fixture in Alvor's shop in case it didn't like being empty and he still crashed me out. What else could be affecting this? I don't have SkyPatcher or SPID so nothing should be being added outside of what I can see in xEdit afaik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namiricorn Posted July 9 Author Share Posted July 9 Okay good news and bad news: I found the culprit. It seems to be iNeed. It has basically no conflicts (those it has I'd patched to make sure that iNeed won) and worked on my last game before I switched to MO2 and moving it right to the bottom of my load order has not fixed the problem (though when I realised it was iNeed I also noticed I couldn't see it's MCM and that at least shows now that I've brought it down the load order). So now I need to work out why such a widely used mod is upset with my system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronOfMpls Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 19 minutes ago, Namiricorn said: So now I need to work out why such a widely used mod is upset with my system Reinstall it, maybe? Or maybe it's interacting with another mod. Fortunately, MO profiles mean you can keep your existing load order in one profile, and do your experimentation in another. (I haven't used iNeed myself, so I don't know its quirks or incompatibilities.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namiricorn Posted July 9 Author Share Posted July 9 My patch was an esl so it was knocking it up my load order. I repatched it so I could bring it right down again and now it's working. Still no idea what the conflict is because I patched it the same as before and SEEdit wasn't showing any other conflicts but at least I know to check on my general stores as I go so if anything breaks it again I can bump it up 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMartyr Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 Hate to say this, but bumping an ESL in load order does nothing, it will always load at FE, try grouping all the ESL at the bottom in the right panel, then control their Merge Order, it will give better clarity at what is going on, remember the combined records of the ESL cannot exceed 4096 records Also Skyrim as a two phase loading system regarding official plugins, 00 to FD then FE (ESL to 4096 rec) and finally FF for the game save, then rinse and repeat FYI it check it will not crash ( first pass) before it actually load anything.. and if finds something wrong it can fix, it may even change your load order.. (second pass) I shite you not I believe @Gopher made video on it 12 or more years ago check it out... if you think I am lying. EDIT reason I mention the two pass loading system is you need to know how it works if you plan on exceeding the limit.. or unexpected things might happen depending on what plugin both active or inactive are in the data folder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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