Do we mod Skyrim purely because it sucks?

[InDarkestNight]

Thinking about it, maybe the reason we make and use mods for this game is because its hot garbage. Gameplay sucks in every way possible, story sucks, its unstable no matter what you do, and the graphics are dated. However, I don't find myself lamenting the lack of mods for other games. I still play the first time batman arkham games from time to time. I don't care there's hardly any mods available for those. They're still a rewarding experience. What do you get out of playing skyrim? I really don't know anymore. I used to mod it for a realistic survival game, but that's not doable anymore and all my favorite mods are in really bad need of new models and textures.

The combat in the Arkham Games, along with Shadow of Mordor is actually fun. Who needs to fix it? The story is worthwhile and fulling, so why add more? The graphics may be dated, but given everything else who needs it?

Maybe Skyrim is just an ancient turd that we keep trying to fix. Why bother? Why not just to play a game that's actually good out of the box?

I don't care for unmodded skyrim anymore. I've run through its lame quests so many times I struggle to force myself to do them yet again. The gameplay is unrewarding, I'm sick of having to grind my smithing skill simply because there's no other way to level it other than mass producing dwarven bows and jewelry yet again. No other game has ever given me the stability issues this thing has. EVEN THE NES WAS BETTER THAN SKYRIM WTF.

So maybe the game just sucks and we need to just accept that and move on? Guess I should pick up Shadow of Mordor again and actually complete it, or get all the achievements on the Arkham games. Of course, I couldn't when they came out, and I'm only older now. At least playing those game is fun. Hell, with Shadow of Mordor, I actually kept forgetting about the main questline just because it was so fun killing orcs! How often is it that a modern-era game actually has good gameplay? Modern games are normally just movies where you have to grind through the lamest combat ever conceived to see the next cutscene. I'm a retrogamer for a reason. Perhaps I should just stick to classic games that are actually worth playing more than once.

[showler]

No, it's a very well liked game.

[UsernameWithA9]

You should give the sequel Shadow of War a playthrough. I was playing, leveled up to 25 and actually stopped playing because I got pissed about this one orc that kept stalking Talion. It would follow and ambush Talion from one region to the next. Needless to say, it was hard to kill and I was trying to avoid it. The Nemesis AI system that Monolith built into the game is something else. I started playing on the normal difficulty setting but had to dial it down to easy and it was still challenging as hell. 

I may go back and pick up where I left off simply because those orcs were so damned entertaining. Not just entertaining to kill but their lines are really well written and voiced. One of my favorite lines is whenever Talion performs an execution move, effectively decapitating an orc. You'll sometimes hear, "STAY AWAY! He's lopping off heads!"

I didn't play Shadow of Mordor so I have no comparison but if you liked the combat system in Mordor, you'll enjoy Shadow of War's too. It is phenomenal. Shadow Striking multiple targets from a distance, grabbing orcs and shanking them in the back or throwing them into a fire, aerial stealth kills. And the Bird of Prey skill is highly recommended. It slows time and allows Talion to perform a ranged kill while hovering. And the terrorist tactics are interesting and just plain fun. Some orcs are terrified of Morgai flies. Activate one and most of the nearby orcs will run around with arms flailing making them easy sword fodder. Grog barrel poisoning is another. So when I first started, I would poison the barrel then sit close by and wait. The orcs would approach the barrel, get their grog and sometimes start singing, sometimes asking about what to do after being shot with an arrow, "Should I pull it out?". But only for a few moments. Because that's all it took for the poison to take effect. They would turn green, start choking then fall down dead. Actually when I write it out it seems a bit anti-climatic, doesn't it? Well, you had to be there.

Speaking of grog, the songs the orcs sing when they're drunk on grog are nothing short of hilarious.

[Chadonraz]

No.

Vanilla Skyrim is a great game (I played 1000+ hours on vanilla, so I have experience), mods simply make it even greater.

[InDarkestNight]

'It just is' isn't an argument.

The combat makes even The Legend of Zelda look elaborate. All you can do is walk up and left-click things to death. What fun is that?

The stories in this game are shallow and filled with plot holes. Not to mention the forgettable npcs that most factions have (how many can name the members of the DB off the top of their heads other than Astrid and Cicero?) The civil war questline, despite being a major selling point of the game, is boring and repetitive. Also, neither of the factions are fun. One executes innocent people simply because they don't know them, and they're ruled by an elf-supremacist faction. The other is a nord-supremacist faction, lead by a liar who GETS COMPARED FAVORABLY TO TRUMP. The companions are just assassins with good PR. None of the quest lines really makes you a good guy; you never have to sacrifice for anyone, everything has some practical benefit. A good character can barely do anything in this game that isn't questionable, but a villain can literally justify anything, even if its purely for practical benefits.

And then there's the game's lack of content. The cities just get smaller and smaller with every passing game. And then there's the major issue that's always plagued this game; the severe lack of monsters. Most things are either wild animals, or functioally bandits. I mean, you can use the weapons of draugr, and that plus the armor of falmer. What does that say? The only true monsters in this game are trolls, giants, wispmothers (which are so rare I've rarely had a playthrough where I encountered one, seriously), and dragons, the latter of which is the lamest enemy in the entire game DESPITE BEING A MAJOR SELLING POINT.

What does this game have going for it? Who plays this game for Skyrim? I don't; I rarely can force myself to trudge through the vanilla questlines anymore. You play Skyrim for the mods. I played it for Frostfall and Skytest Realistic Animals and Predators for years. I've been trying to get into quest mods, but haven't had much luck with that (I keep having to restart either due to stability issues, or me just trying an unorthodox build that never seems to work).

Also, how many builds are possible in this game? You have a choice between warrior, rogue, and mage. The warrior can use destruction, conjuration, and restoration. The rogue can use illusion and conjuration. The mage can wear armor. There's only about 7 builds in this game that actually work. I've done every one of the possible builds to death. Also, the questlines I do all follow a pattern. Mages do the CoW, rogues do DB and TG, and warriors everything else. Volkihar for evil warriors, dawnguard for good ones. I'm literally just playing the game sections of the game over and over again with the same damned characters. I used to roleplay a lot, yes, but that's hard to do when you're limited to playing the game the same way over and over again, making the same dialogue choices over and over again because there's just so few to choose from.

I'm beyond sick of this game. I wonder why I even bother trying to play it anymore. Honestly, the only reason I do is because I have no other games. Everything else I own on steam I either hated but could not return BECAUSE THE TUTORIAL TOOK TOO DAMNED LONG, or was updated into something I straight can't play (f*#@ terraria). If I quit Skyrim, I would literally have no other games. And yes, recently I have tried to play my other games again. That only put me in a bad mood. I ragequit most of them after reliving why I hated those games from the first place, and the few exceptions I just got bored with. So, either torment or boredom, wtf? Honestly, Skyrim would be in the latter category if it wasn't for LE and mods.

So yes, I play Skyrim purely for the mods. I even decided to re-install s#*! Edition just so I wouldn't have to wait if the Beyond Skyrim project ever comes out. Of course, I won't actually start it until I can get an alternate start mod that lets me begin outside of Skyrim. s#*! Edition is dead to me and I refuse to set foot in DESECRATED skyrim ever again. I only play TRUE SKYRIM from now on when I feel like it. Honestly, I wonder at times why others don't share my sentiments. Who the hell would bother playing s#*! Edtion after it was annihilated by the AE update. Who wants to just run through the main questline again and again? Who wants to replay the same damned few characters again and again, and all in a game that is never rewarding. This is probably why I've been so hell-bent on completing Legacy of the Dragonborn. There is a reward for that; walking through a completed museum after all my hardwork, and after seeing everything this game has to offer. Of course, I've already seen it all dozens of times. I have over 4,000 hours in this game, to give you an idea. I only have about 200 in s#*! edition for comparison.

[Chadonraz]

3 hours ago, InDarkestNight said:

-snip-

Nobody said the game is perfect. It's not, it has its issues. Your post is a rant, not debate.

I  doubt anyone plays Skyrim for the story, at least the main quest. But, then again, Skyrim is hardly a story-driven game anyway; it is much more of an open-world sandbox that encourages exploration over following quests all the time.

The civil war is what it is (= boring) due to massive amounts of cut content. A normal part of game development, to an extent.

 

Your long list of issues the game has is your opinion, which others may not share. I certainly don't agree on many points. For example:

- There is no reason for every fantasy game to have lots of monsters. Skyrim isn't Witcher or Monster Hunter. Dragons are Skyrim's main selling point in that regard, and they certainly are around in large numbers.
- While any character can use any skill, you can simply decide not to use skills that wouldn't fit your character; just because something is possible doesn't mean you have to use it. That one's on you. The same goes for what factions to (not) join.

 

I have over 4000 hours on Oldrim, over 400 hours on Special Edition, and at least 1000+ hours on Xbox 360 (= vanilla Oldrim). I doubt I'll go back to Oldrim anymore, because SE is much better in terms of both stability and visuals, and has all of the mods I could possibly want to install or try.

Edited July 26 by Chadonraz

[JimboUK]

According to Bethesda only 8% of players use mods and less than 1% has made one, that might have changed with mods on consoles but it does show how well liked it is without mods. 

[UsernameWithA9]

You know, I've read about you hating this game or that one. RNG games are too easy or I hate Skyrim, let me count the ways. Have you ever stopped to consider that you've outgrown gaming? I mean, why are you even here? If anything, you're an anti-gamer.

5 hours ago, InDarkestNight said:

And yes, recently I have tried to play my other games again. That only put me in a bad mood. I ragequit most of them after reliving why I hated those games from the first place

And that right there is you just setting yourself up for failure. Don't do that. And don't allow this post to put you in a bad mood either, although I suspect it most likely will. Think of it as constructive criticism and please, I've said this before, do a little personal inventory.

[InDarkestNight]

This is getting off-topic. Also, why you would trust Bethesda for anything? How do they even know that? Are they just gauging it based on how many people actually use their own modding site, or use their cc garbage? I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers for those were that low. Then again, I do recall the system detecting mods that I had installed through nmm. Yes, if you download a mod from here and install it through a third party mod manager, bethesda will know (at least as long its a mod also on their site). I found this out when I purged my load order of all the mods I had installed through their website, then downloaded and re-installed them all from here. They all re-appeared in their mod menu thing. If I removed them from there, it also uninstalled it from nmm. Seriously. Yeah, talk about an invasion of privacy, and lets not forget they don't approve of most mods out there.

As for gaming, its been my whole life. I literally can't remember the first time I picked up a controller. A few years ago I even got a programming degree so I could get into game development. That didn't pan out obviously, but still. I admit I have thought about quitting gaming, but what would I do instead? Its the only hobby I have left. What, should I start collecting stamps? Then gawking at my collection all day when I'm trying to unwind? Gaming is irreplacable to me. I did get into retrogaming for a reason. AND I AM NOT ANTI-GAMES WTF. I decry companies destroying their own games, and I'm opposed to them existing? I treasure my games and I hate gaming? I've been working on making my own games for my own amusement, and I hate gaming? And yes, I do enjoy the games I make, even if what I can make is limited. I have been thinking I need to get back into that, so I can re-make the games I love but have lost. Obviously, I would never be able to make something like Skyrim. Also, I've long wanted to do this; I originally wanted to make a clone of The Sims 2 to give you an idea of how long. At best I could make a clone of Magic the Gathering Battlegrounds, but that's about as far as I could go. Of course, for that I would have to somehow solve the issue of voiced audio actually being important to the gameplay. There's no way you could play that game if you are deaf, seriously.

[UsernameWithA9]

Yeah, I don't know. I was just throwing that label out there because that's how it appears to me. But you definitely have a love/hate relationship going with gaming. 

And there are more rewarding hobbies than stamp collecting. How droll. That's almost as useless as collecting cars. But painting comes to mind... or gardening. I'm not saying you should pursue those but just as examples to demonstrate that you have to expand your mind. Or were you just being sarcastic when you suggested stamp collecting?

Good luck regardless.