Do we mod Skyrim purely because it sucks?

[fraquar]

Before one asks that question they should first answer why does anyone mod their game at all (any game).

1)  Because you can (and a lot of games DON'T allow that).    More than enough reason for humanity over the centuries to do anything.

2)  Because nobody wants to keep playing the same Single Player game over and over and over - especially for 15 years.   Even Monopoly no two games were the same because of the multi-player and random factors (even though the mechanics of the game never changed).   That isn't the case with a Single Player game like Skyrim.   Nothing changes unless you mod it - it's why No Hit Permadeath players know where everything is in every game, know where every enemy spawn point is, immediately max out the 10mm pistol (Fallout 4), etc.    They know the path to the best chance to succeed - and it never changes.   

3) Because on the whole, most things are acceptable.    You change what is not, or at the very least add more options to explore beyond the base ones.

[InDarkestNight]

Mods aren't exactly new. I played 'mod' maps on Warcraft 3 quite a lot back in its day (back then, 'mod' was only use for what we now call a gameplay overhaul, 'mod's for warcraft 3 were normally called 'custom maps', while sims mods were called 'custom content'). I also had probably hundreds of mods installed for The Sims 2. Though 99% of that was clothing mods (I was a goth at the time, so obviously there wasn't much fashion available in the base game that appealed to me). These games had thriving modding communities, and I would still seriously argue that Warcraft 3 is the best game for modding. Yeah, you can do a lot of amazing things in Skyrim, but at the end of the day its still a lame action rpg. In warcraft 3, because of its mixture of rpg and rts gameplay, you could make just about any game you wanted. I mean, DOTA started off as a mod for that game. There were also countless tower defense games. Footmen Frenzy, Jungle Troll Tribes. Countless minor pvp games, games for online live action roleplaying, a ccg (seriously), a game with a starcraft theme that was a lot like Among Us, you name it.

Warcraft 3's modding scene was mainly caused by its versatility, and it being one of the first games to come with a 'creation kit'. As for the Sims 2, well its essentially a digital dollhouse, so people just liked to customize their house and sims. I mean, mods that did anything other than add recolors or new clothing and furniture meshes were virtually unheard of.

So, why do people mod Skyrim? Armor mods are popular, but that don't comprize 99.999999% of mods like they did in The Sims 2. Nobody's making their own games in Skyrim. You can make quest mods, but anything you make has to always been an action rpg. Besides, mods like those are few and far between (probably because of the Beyond Skyrim project). The most popular mods seem to be overhaul mods like Frostfall, Ordinator, the countless combat mods we have, spell mods, creature mods, you get the idea. The main two things people seem to want to use this game for is to make porn or make Skyrim into a decent game, the latter clearly being far more popular.

So why do people mod skyrim? They're trying to make it better, not adding new accessories or creating their own original games in it (and before you say it, yes I know Dota was based on a starcraft mod, and dota allstars, the one dota 2 was based was actually one of the later versions that compiled mutiple heroes together from all the other variants out there, thus the name 'allstars', heck the first 'dota' map I ever played was called Dota Darkness Falls, which was long before Allstars came out). They're trying to address the issues of the game. The lame combat, the lack of creature variety, the graphics, the lack of spells, the lack of good story, adding more dialogue lines. Everything is an attempt to fix the game's shortcomings. Its not just being made for the hell of it. Would the Skyrim community be what it is today if the game wasn't so flawed? Would we see so many creature mods if there were a decent number in this game? Would we have as many spell mods? Or all these dialogue overhauls coming out? Likely the game would instead be dominated by graphics and quest mods instead of what we see today.

Edited July 27 by InDarkestNight

[JimboUK]

Quest mods are among the hardest and most time consuming mods to make, that's why we don't see many of them, it's nothing to do with the quality of the game. I don't like Skyrim but I'm not going to suggest that it's a bad game, bad games don't sell in the numbers that Skyrim has, it sold 13.7 million copies on the 360 alone, a platform with no mods.

People have to like a game before they'll invest time and effort into modding it, no one is going to mod a game they don't like, the game will be 13 years old this year and still has a large player base, they must have done something right.

[fraquar]

The sad thing is, back in the day games were literally sold on the quests, on the balance of combat/loot/character development, and most importantly on the wide array of directions a game could take just based on a simple dialogue response.    

There was no/little graphics - just pixels.

Something kept bringing you back - because there was no fancy graphics. 

----

Today?    There is no branching dialogue - you are literally pushed kicking and screaming to the direction they want you to go.

Today?    Game reviewers for the most part are just shills - afraid to speak the truth about a game for fear of being ostracized - not given "exclusive access" anymore.

Today?    It's all about the eyecandy, when all of the stuff I mentioned earlier is essentially the heartbeat of a successful game that is replayable.

----

For people buying games remember a simple addage:    Believe nothing your hear and only 1/2 of what you see.

[ScytheBearer]

Trigger warning: This post contains the word "diversity".

I think part of the reason games "suck" is because people keep comparing one game to another, keep expecting one game to be like all the others.  People pick games apart because this game has better graphics and that game has better dialog and this other game has more interesting characters, etc.  These folks expect every game to consist of only the best parts of every other game; and by logical extension, they expect all games to be nothing more than a bland indistinguishable homogenized gelatinous mass. 

What happened to letting every game stand or fall on it's own merits?  What happened to allowing a game to be dealt with as a unique entity, separate and distinct from every other game?  What happened to appreciating the variety and diversity and differences of games? 

[showler]

So, if the premise is that Skyrim gets modded because it sucks, how does one explain the fact that any highly-acclaimed possibly universally adored game will immediately start being modded as soon as that option exists?

[Guest deleted156886133]

28 minutes ago, showler said:

how does one explain the fact that any highly-acclaimed possibly universally adored game will immediately start being modded as soon as that option exists?

All highly-acclaimed possibly universally adored games suck?

Nah, probably not. Or maybe, it's not the hammer but the one wielding the hammer that sucks.

[Chadonraz]

On 7/27/2024 at 8:50 AM, InDarkestNight said:

They're trying to make it better

That's the whole point of modding any game, but "better" is largely subjective.

On 7/27/2024 at 8:50 AM, InDarkestNight said:

Would the Skyrim community be what it is today if the game wasn't so flawed? Would we see so many creature mods if there were a decent number in this game? Would we have as many spell mods? Or all these dialogue overhauls coming out?

Yes, yes, yes, and yes. Skyrim gets modded so much because it is highly moddable and because it is a popular game, not because it's a terrible game. If it were a terrible game, it wouldn't have sold as much as it has and the modding scene wouldn't be what it is.

Again, nobody has claimed the game is perfect or flawless -- it certainly isn't, and neither is any other game -- but the point is that this matter, like most other things in life, is not black and white. Skyrim is firmly in shades of grey, though whether it is closer to black (full of flaws) or white (flawless) is a matter of opinion.

People mod Skyrim for the same reasons they mod any moddable game: to change, add, or remove things that they personally think could be better.
Skyrim has a lot of combat, but is not a war or fighting game and thus doesn't come with a huge variety of gear or particularly great combat --> a lot of armour and combat mods.
Skyrim has a lot of different enemies, but is not a monster-hunting game and thus doesn't come with a huge variety of creatures --> a lot of creature mods.
And so on.

In a nutshell, Skyrim itself is pretty much a jack of all trades, master of none. Which is why there are a lot of mods of all kinds.

On 7/27/2024 at 8:50 AM, InDarkestNight said:

Nobody's making their own games in Skyrim. You can make quest mods, but anything you make has to always been an action rpg.

Skyrim is an RPG, so why on earth should people (be able to) mod it into something completely different? That doesn't make any sense as an argument.
One doesn't buy a racing game and then complain one can't play it as a life sim, or a real-time strategy game and then complain one can't play it as a sports game, because that would be utterly nonsensical.

Edited August 3 by Chadonraz

[JimboUK]

3 hours ago, ScytheBearer said:

Trigger warning: This post contains the word "diversity".

I think part of the reason games "suck" is because people keep comparing one game to another, keep expecting one game to be like all the others.  People pick games apart because this game has better graphics and that game has better dialog and this other game has more interesting characters, etc.  These folks expect every game to consist of only the best parts of every other game; and by logical extension, they expect all games to be nothing more than a bland indistinguishable homogenized gelatinous mass. 

What happened to letting every game stand or fall on it's own merits?  What happened to allowing a game to be dealt with as a unique entity, separate and distinct from every other game?  What happened to appreciating the variety and diversity and differences of games? 

I think games being a "bland indistinguishable homogenized gelatinous mass" is one of the problems, at least in the AAA space, we're seeing the same things over and over again, another Call of Duty, another Ubisoft reskin, there's very little that's new or anything that will get people excited, which might explain this https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/just-66-titles-saw-80-percent-of-all-playtime-in-2023-most-older-games-like-fortnite-or-gta-5 

[InDarkestNight]

The reason sequels dominate is because they're less risky. Any new IP is a gamble, sequels less so since as long as most of the prior games are good, it'll turn a profit even if its bad. This trend started in the 2000s during the great recession. People quickly started complaining about this, since it felt like the same few games were being re-made over and over. it stuck though since it simply proved the better business strategy. Before this, sequels were rare. Long-running series were few. Now it seems all games are expected to generate endless sequels, even on the freak occasion a new IP comes out. New IPs are more frequent now, though they rarely seem to get much attenion, possibly because the gaming landscape is so overcrowded with titles now.