jjb54 Posted October 14 Author Share Posted October 14 1 hour ago, 363rdChemicalCompany said: If accurate, then this is a fair point , that I think we must concede. But I think there is also no doubt that a greta many players would stop playing this game if it wasnt for mod. I for one cannot imagine sitll playing it ( and buying it twice GOG and Steam!) if it wasnt for mods. Actually I only got turned on to this game in 2021 and decided to buy it, from watching online vids about FO4 mods. Before that I had not played agame since 2002. The KEY is " *IF ACCURATE ... " - which if you do two things: 1 - Look at the number of games sold - Skyrim and/or Fallout 4 and see the MOD LIST - Downloads and such. The MATH DOES NOT WORK! Plus ... 2 - Bethesda recently released SKYRIM & FALLOUT .... * WITH MODS * ... so that kind of shoots that down BIG TIME. Since they PUSHED MODS ( wanted or not ) on to the users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showler Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 Paid CC content does not count as mods in any discussion about modders saving Bethesda. That would be like saying that modders saved No Man's Sky because the developers kept adding more content to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjb54 Posted October 14 Author Share Posted October 14 3 hours ago, showler said: Paid CC content does not count as mods in any discussion about modders saving Bethesda. That would be like saying that modders saved No Man's Sky because the developers kept adding more content to the game. Excuse me - FALLOUT 4 and SKYRIM have MODS that they FORCED on the players. No one paid for these to be HARD SET into the game ... and if you try to remove, turn off these MODS - the game will not load. Again, NO $$ was given by the players .. I'm not even sure why you are rationalizing this??? A MOD IS A MOD - if you pay for it, donate to it or such. It's STILL A MOD CREATED BY OTHERS AND NOT BETHESDA. Actually - Bethesda "sold" it as an UPGRADE / FIX and yet they FIXED NOTHING ( NO BUGS ) and it was nothing but pushing CC-Mods into the game. So that kind of kills your point, lock, stock and barrell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showler Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 40 minutes ago, jjb54 said: and if you try to remove, turn off these MODS - the game will not load. This remains a blatant lie. You can move the files out of the directory in order to not use them. What you may not be able to do is your absurd idea of removing the CC items mid-game in order to "reset" the quest. Something you shouldn't ever do and can't do with a variety of mods regardless of whether they are CC content or community created mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjb54 Posted October 15 Author Share Posted October 15 21 hours ago, showler said: This remains a blatant lie. You can move the files out of the directory in order to not use them. What you may not be able to do is your absurd idea of removing the CC items mid-game in order to "reset" the quest. Something you shouldn't ever do and can't do with a variety of mods regardless of whether they are CC content or community created mods. No .. that is NOT a ".. blatant lie ..." I can speak from 1st HAND EXPERIENCE. I am talking about the CC Mods that are HARD SET INTO THE GAME! These are the mods that are HARD SET INTO THE GAME: 254 FE 0 ccBGSFO4044-HellfirePowerArmor.esl 254 FE 1 ccBGSFO4115-X02.esl 254 FE 2 ccBGSFO4116-HeavyFlamer.esl 254 FE 3 ccBGSFO4110-WS_Enclave.esl 254 FE 4 ccBGSFO4096-AS_Enclave.esl 254 FE 5 ccFSVFO4007-Halloween.esl 254 FE 6 ccBGSFO4046-TesCan.esl 254 FE 7 ccSBJFO4003-Grenade.esl 254 FE 8 ccOTMFO4001-Remnants.esl The ABOVE MODS ARE HARDSET IN FALLOUT 4 - Bethesda's so called "Update". I was told back in the beginning when this happened. "... all you have to move them out of the data directory. NO - and I'm not the only one that can verify this: You do it and the GAME WILL NOT LOAD! I also did not say " ... Removing the CC mods .. to "reset" the quest..." I stated that that is a problem, because you CANNOT do that, where as if you have a mod from IE: Nexus .. you can turn it off, load - save and turn back on the mod .... I wish you would quote me and not state things that are NOT in my posts, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showler Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 The problem with your claim is that I also own the game and confirmed for myself that you can remove those CC items without issue. Which I made clear to you in an earlier thread where you were ranting about Saints and Seducers. It's no different in Fallout 4. If you can't load the game it's because you have a mod that uses one of them as a master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 Bethesda doesn't even know who is playing these games at any given time - how on earth are they going to know who is using mods when they are playing? They know sales numbers. They know Steam data - whose user base is just a fraction of the total player base and even then they don't all play the game in online mode. Believe them if you want - but I'd want to know the source of their statistics first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showler Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 They would have precise info on consoles since they controlled all mod access on consoles. For many years Steam was the only place to get their games on PC. They would also have data from their Support channels. But even if you don't believe them, the Skyrim SE mod with the most unique users is the USSEP with just over 5 million unique downloads. Even if you double that for non-Nexus Mods downloads that's still a minority of users. And that's for a mod that most people seem to feel is essential. In the end whether mod users are ten percent of players or 90 percent of players the idea that mods are the most important part of selling the game is unsupportable. Even more so since the latest games in each franchise are the first to even have mods on consoles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjb54 Posted October 16 Author Share Posted October 16 17 hours ago, showler said: The problem with your claim is that I also own the game and confirmed for myself that you can remove those CC items without issue. Which I made clear to you in an earlier thread where you were ranting about Saints and Seducers. It's no different in Fallout 4. If you can't load the game it's because you have a mod that uses one of them as a master. Well then, individual results will vary. Are you on Console or PC?? ... I'm on PC. Now as to "Saints & Seducers" -> What I had to do was go back to a prior saved before that MOD was started and had to start over, from that prior saved game. Which I stated in that post. I also , yesterday - with BOTH Skyrim and FO 4 - tried it again, with a BRAND NEW START, just to see. - Since one cannot turn the *OFF* like normal mods .. moving them is THE ONLY OPTION. No - neither game would load. Instant CTD to DT. And - > YES < - I will be happy to supply a video of what I am talking about, if you require. Now I do want to make sure we are talking APPLES & APPLES. You are talking about the cc MODS that were forced on us w/the so called upgrades, and not CC Mod that you downloaded and play? ADDED: In the FALLOUT 4 Data Base Folder there are -> 4 cc(mod).esl files - there are 47 ccI\(mod).ba2 files. Then I found reference in one of the .INI files (no I did not check them all ) with references to these. Which means, you removed them .. the .INI file is unable to find and thus will NOT LOAD. In fact the very first, error I am greeted with is: ( Running from FO4SE: ) UnlimitedSurvialMode Signature scan failed, please deactive UnlimitedSurvialMode and download newer version from Nexus. Which is the HARD SET SURVIVAL MODE. Now it's interesting that at least Bethesda allows you turn it OFF IN GAME ... but .... And the game will *NOT* load after this error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showler Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 2 hours ago, jjb54 said: I will be happy to supply a video of what I am talking about, if you require. Saved you the trouble: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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