South8028 Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 2 hours ago, jjb54 said: Fallout 4 - Fallout 76 - Starfield are SOLID PROOF that Bethesda no longer can tell stories and/or create solid Quest Lines. That is why I'm not wanting to see Elder Scroll IV ... We will have Elder Scrolls - meet - Sim City as they did and failed with FALLOUT 4. There is no need to equate fo4 with Starfield. Fo4 is Bethesda's most successful game. fo4 is more successful than Skyrim. fo4 set a sales record, a record for active players at the peak of its popularity in 17. The secret of fo4's success is not interesting quests or a good script, but a large number of mechanics that attracted players not of just one specific genre, but of a variety of people, with different preferences. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surg23 Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 (edited) On 9/30/2024 at 7:05 AM, fraquar said: Never make the same mistake twice. When they gave us fair warning they were pushing an update - the bells and whistles should have sounded. It is a crumby deal and I sympathize with OP, but I am in agreement with this. It would be easy to forgive someone coming into the scene fresh and without knowledge of how Steam forced update policy works. That would be a most unfortunate outcome in context of spending countless hours creating stable mod configs. From the moment I had knowledge of how updates work in relation to game/mod environments I have resorted to running Steam in perma-lockdown mode as there are simply too many forced updates for games I own. Several of which have already become unplayable and with the requirement that I need to redownload the entire game again, not just the update. Something I can't even afford to do from a bandwidth/data quota standpoint. It does really rub me the wrong way that Steam doesn't offer a simple flag or toggle to abstain from updates. A relatively simple change in UI function you would imagine. Only very recently have I been made aware that there exists community workarounds for this, but honestly its an endeavour by itself to keep track of this stuff and its easy for such updates to creep up on you after hiatus or mild absent-mindedness. An official solution, even at this point, would save so much heartache. I don't think its asking too much given that these circumstances are a direct contravention of what the platform is supposed to stand for. Edited October 13 by surg23 spelling 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjb54 Posted October 13 Author Share Posted October 13 15 hours ago, South8028 said: There is no need to equate fo4 with Starfield. Fo4 is Bethesda's most successful game. fo4 is more successful than Skyrim. fo4 set a sales record, a record for active players at the peak of its popularity in 17. The secret of fo4's success is not interesting quests or a good script, but a large number of mechanics that attracted players not of just one specific genre, but of a variety of people, with different preferences. No actually - SKYRIM - is still Bethesda's best and most successful game. FO 4 - WOULD NOT EVEN BE ON THE RADAR, if it wasn't for the MOD COMMUNITY Creators coming to the Rescue. Otherwise, it would have died a painful death. Stop, and take this challenge that I gave users back when FO 4 came out. ... JUST PLAY THE BASE GAME. NO MODS AT ALL. Just the base game and tell me how much you love it?? Strange - of the people ( Diehards ) ( about 60 in all ) all said the same thing in their unique ways: They stopped playing it as it was "crap" - "s#*!" - "why did they f8king do this?" .. to various paraphrased of the afore mentioned quotes. Several players stopped their "pain and agony" after Concord and the rescue. The building of Sanctuary was ... ( use various cuss words here ). Several "forced their way" through Tenpines and stopped. Some did the Clearing out the car mfg ... and stopped. < - I think you get my point? No - FO 4 would not have "gone far" if, again it was *NOT* for the Mod Creators .... which *NO* game should be dependent on that alone! See - here is what you are overlooking: FO 4 - was HYPED and yes I was initially excited .. but I waited 8 month afterwards... and it was BUGGY just to install! I had to go online and find, you *NEED* to take the DVD's and copy them to your hard drive and install that way. Yes, it worked. But I should not have had to 'go there'. So here is what I would challenge you to do: PLAY THE GAME WITH ZERO MODS and get "back to me" with ".. how fun ( it wasn't ) .." for you. >>> I dare you! <<< Understand that I expect, sadly, for you to give me excuses why you won't .. and thus proving, actually my point. Would you still be playing the game w/out the mod community? I would wager you would not, because of the bugs and the frustration of the game not being FALLOUT .. but .. FALLOUT - Meets Sim City ( and failed ) and such. Fallout 76 - was "sold" as WAY MORE THAN IT WAS and the fanbase and such were MAD AS HELL and even legal actions were taken / threatened and such. They Over Sold what they "delivered" and they are still trying to "catch up". Starfield - again, was OVER SOLD as to what it would be, verse what IS! Fan base is not overly excited and happy with that either. No - FO 4 ... FO 76 ... Starfield are all wrapped up in the same issue: Bethesda is NOT able to deliver the "goods". Their ability to tell stories - quests and such are what FALLOUT ( all of them ) are about! Elder Scrolls - Ditto. Starfield - go look at the Pre-market hype and then .. well. IT'S CALLED A PATTERN and it's not good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjb54 Posted October 13 Author Share Posted October 13 On 10/3/2024 at 2:42 PM, fraquar said: You got 3 different genres of games here: Skyrim: High fantasy with magic, a medieval setting with a VAST amount of lore. Fallout: Modern gameplay in a destroyed post-apocalyptic world where there really isn't any uniting to get the rebuilding process in full gear (and looking at the Commonwealth - in any gear). Starfield: Sci-fi, with an environment that needed to be build from the ground up. They built Fallout in space..... Yes ... you are correct: But they show a PATTERN OF (NOT SO GOOD BEHAVIOR) on Bethesda's part. Skyrim is still their #1 game, if we are honest? BASE and MODDED. It's fantasy / Magic and lore are NOT lost in FO. FALLOUT 4 - has "magic" of FPS weapons. Fallout also has LORE! BoS - Enclave - Vaults - Deathclaws - Mutants ... the LORE IS THERE! FALLOUT 76 = was supposed to be further LORE building and such. ( FAILED ) -> To the point legal actions and such were put on the table - AGAINST BETHESDA over selling and not delivering. Starfield - Again, look at the PRE-HYPE that Bethesda "sold" and what we were told .. and they too, FAILED TO DELIEVER. 3 Different games, yes - but with the Exception of Starfield ( which could have been great ) if they actually TRIED TO TELL STORIES. Elder Scrolls have LORE - Fallout has LORE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South8028 Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 3 hours ago, jjb54 said: No actually - SKYRIM - is still Bethesda's best and most successful game. FO 4 - WOULD NOT EVEN BE ON THE RADAR, if it wasn't for the MOD COMMUNITY Creators coming to the Rescue. Otherwise, it would have died a painful death. Stop, and take this challenge that I gave users back when FO 4 came out. ... JUST PLAY THE BASE GAME. NO MODS AT ALL. Just the base game and tell me how much you love it?? Strange - of the people ( Diehards ) ( about 60 in all ) all said the same thing in their unique ways: They stopped playing it as it was "crap" - "s#*!" - "why did they f8king do this?" .. to various paraphrased of the afore mentioned quotes. Several players stopped their "pain and agony" after Concord and the rescue. The building of Sanctuary was ... ( use various cuss words here ). Several "forced their way" through Tenpines and stopped. Some did the Clearing out the car mfg ... and stopped. < - I think you get my point? No - FO 4 would not have "gone far" if, again it was *NOT* for the Mod Creators .... which *NO* game should be dependent on that alone! See - here is what you are overlooking: FO 4 - was HYPED and yes I was initially excited .. but I waited 8 month afterwards... and it was BUGGY just to install! I had to go online and find, you *NEED* to take the DVD's and copy them to your hard drive and install that way. Yes, it worked. But I should not have had to 'go there'. So here is what I would challenge you to do: PLAY THE GAME WITH ZERO MODS and get "back to me" with ".. how fun ( it wasn't ) .." for you. >>> I dare you! <<< Understand that I expect, sadly, for you to give me excuses why you won't .. and thus proving, actually my point. Would you still be playing the game w/out the mod community? I would wager you would not, because of the bugs and the frustration of the game not being FALLOUT .. but .. FALLOUT - Meets Sim City ( and failed ) and such. Fallout 76 - was "sold" as WAY MORE THAN IT WAS and the fanbase and such were MAD AS HELL and even legal actions were taken / threatened and such. They Over Sold what they "delivered" and they are still trying to "catch up". Starfield - again, was OVER SOLD as to what it would be, verse what IS! Fan base is not overly excited and happy with that either. No - FO 4 ... FO 76 ... Starfield are all wrapped up in the same issue: Bethesda is NOT able to deliver the "goods". Their ability to tell stories - quests and such are what FALLOUT ( all of them ) are about! Elder Scrolls - Ditto. Starfield - go look at the Pre-market hype and then .. well. IT'S CALLED A PATTERN and it's not good! I don't know... Maybe I'm not whimsical. I remember that I happily completed fo4 vanilla in 17 without any mods. I immediately realized that the game had a lot of great mechanics and great potential. The story itself didn't seem bad to me either. Well, yes, the script is not a masterpiece, but it is not terrible. There are hundreds of games that lack any kind of script... Well, or the scripts of which were written by 5-year-old authors. This doesn't stop people from playing them. For me fo4 is much better than skyrim because fo4 has bs connect point/building system. Create scenes on the fly. Fo4 also has official tools. From the point of view of mod building, only full-fledged indie projects can provide great opportunities for creativity... Engines such as ue, unity. To this we can add low hardware requirements combined with a decent renderer for its time, capable of processing scenes with hundreds of millions of polygons.All this combined is a successful project for Bethesda. People appreciated this success by buying tens of millions of copies of the game. For many, fo4 has become a cult game, for some even the best game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showler Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 Even to this day, as far as Bethesda has reported, there are more people playing games like Skyrim and Fallout 4 WITHOUT mods than with mods. The idea that mods are the only saving grace of a Bethesda game is very much limited to the people who frequent sites like this...sites that host mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjb54 Posted October 14 Author Share Posted October 14 15 minutes ago, showler said: Even to this day, as far as Bethesda has reported, there are more people playing games like Skyrim and Fallout 4 WITHOUT mods than with mods. The idea that mods are the only saving grace of a Bethesda game is very much limited to the people who frequent sites like this...sites that host mods. ... Yes, and Bethesda NEVER OVER STATES their stats at all. Actually - do the math: See how many reported games are bought / played with Skyrim .. let's say. Then go to sites: Nexus - Steam and Other sites now that do mods for just Skyrim - for this dialog sake. You'll see that yes, Bethesda "reports" are not seriously factual. Supposedly there are 60 MILLION SKYRIM GAMES SOLD: Nexus alone has: 54,596,397 members. So you see ... Out of the 60 Million, only 6 million ( and that's not a lot ) are M.I.A. in Nexus. Now how many are on Steam, using mods? So what Bethesda says - and just doing, even "ballpark" ... Um, I will CHALLENGE their so called " report ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showler Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 Insane comparison. Compare the number of copies of Skyrim sold to the number of unique downloads the most popular Skyrim mods have. Still not a good comparison but better than the entire userbase of this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjb54 Posted October 14 Author Share Posted October 14 No it's not - only because the facts might not fit the narrative and shows Bethesda is slightly inflating their #'s .... Besides - How does BETHESDA KNOW THIS? Ponder this for 30 seconds, but take longer. You are imply that Bethesda is TRACKING USERS??? .... Also - with the Recent upgrade of both SKYRIM & FALLOUT 4 ->>>> THEY INCLUDED CC-MODS <<<<- so that right there tells you, that their system is FLAWED. Because EVERY SKYRIM - FALLOUT 4 UPDATED, recently - ** HAS MODS ** - . o O ( I was kind of hoping, I would not have had to point this out. As you should be aware of that! ) Also, I did not LIMIT the total number to just Nexus - but also STEAM and there are other sites that also have Skyrim - Fallout mods! So, again - common sense might want to be engaged here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
363rdChemicalCompany Posted October 14 Share Posted October 14 15 hours ago, showler said: Even to this day, as far as Bethesda has reported, there are more people playing games like Skyrim and Fallout 4 WITHOUT mods than with mods. The idea that mods are the only saving grace of a Bethesda game is very much limited to the people who frequent sites like this...sites that host mods. If accurate, then this is a fair point , that I think we must concede. But I think there is also no doubt that a greta many players would stop playing this game if it wasnt for mod. I for one cannot imagine sitll playing it ( and buying it twice GOG and Steam!) if it wasnt for mods. Actually I only got turned on to this game in 2021 and decided to buy it, from watching online vids about FO4 mods. Before that I had not played agame since 2002. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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