Fallout 4 Modding 2019 to 2025 difference questions

[Dubbyk]

So I last played and heavily modded fallout 4 in 2019, I have some questions about how things have changed and if it's worth getting back into it.

1: The Next Gen Patch: How bad did this break everything? And like in some other mod heavy games like Stellaris did the player base and modders break into Pre and Post update community's where half the people never get the patch and the other half do, if you update the active mods get updated but all the older mods that had worked just fine are left in the dust bin? If this did happen, do you guys think it's better to update to latest version and give up on the older mods? Or stay with the older version and have access to the older mods.

 

Preferred method of mod installation: Vortex was still pretty new when I last played around with fallout 4 and many people still used NMM and MO2, has a consensus been reached and one method risen to the top?

 

.ESLs: They where still pretty new when I stopped playing and many many mods that could be turned into .ESLs had not been and you pretty much had to trial and error converting them and see if they ran, have people embraced .ESLs more as being released as such by the modders directly or is it still pretty much on the end users to convert them if they fit the requirements?

 

Mod limit: There was an open debate on how many .ESLs you could have on top of the 254 limit, was there every a answer reached on just how many .ESLs you could have on top of 254 .ESP / .ESMs? 

 

Linchpin / Framework mods: It looks like many of the old major framework mods like Armor-smith Extended, Armor Keywords, Settlement Keywords ect have not been updated since 2018/2019. Are all of these projects dead and no longer work with modern mods or have they just have had no need to update?

 

And overall do you guys think it's feasible to get back into modding Fallout 4 in 2025 or should I just play Fallout London and let Fallout rest until Fallout 5 comes along.

[363rdChemicalCompany]

1 hour ago, Dubbyk said:

So I last played and heavily modded fallout 4 in 2019, I have some questions about how things have changed and if it's worth getting back into it.

1: The Next Gen Patch: How bad did this break everything? And like in some other mod heavy games like Stellaris did the player base and modders break into Pre and Post update community's where half the people never get the patch and the other half do, if you update the active mods get updated but all the older mods that had worked just fine are left in the dust bin? If this did happen, do you guys think it's better to update to latest version and give up on the older mods? Or stay with the older version and have access to the older mods.

 

Preferred method of mod installation: Vortex was still pretty new when I last played around with fallout 4 and many people still used NMM and MO2, has a consensus been reached and one method risen to the top?

 

.ESLs: They where still pretty new when I stopped playing and many many mods that could be turned into .ESLs had not been and you pretty much had to trial and error converting them and see if they ran, have people embraced .ESLs more as being released as such by the modders directly or is it still pretty much on the end users to convert them if they fit the requirements?

 

Mod limit: There was an open debate on how many .ESLs you could have on top of the 254 limit, was there every a answer reached on just how many .ESLs you could have on top of 254 .ESP / .ESMs? 

 

Linchpin / Framework mods: It looks like many of the old major framework mods like Armor-smith Extended, Armor Keywords, Settlement Keywords ect have not been updated since 2018/2019. Are all of these projects dead and no longer work with modern mods or have they just have had no need to update?

 

And overall do you guys think it's feasible to get back into modding Fallout 4 in 2025 or should I just play Fallout London and let Fallout rest until Fallout 5 comes along.

Am about to go to bed so only answereing the easy one:

1)

It broke things pretty bad.

Now a LOT of mods have been updated includeing many of the key framework ones.

BUT some older favorites havent been.

There is a big subculture and literally tens of thosuands of downloads that backdate games to .163 version form .984 have happend.

 

If u dont crave those mods that are still broken a couple mods exist to get rid of the real annoying CC content thats eben spammed onto just exit form the bvault w/o explanation why the PC would know or care.

I recommend (in case u dont backgrade)

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/82345

or

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/82311

[AndalayBay]

I guess I'm in the next gen camp. I was gifted the game many years ago but never played it until recently, so I don't have any old favourites. Everything I wanted to use works just fine on NG.

Unfortunately the only CC content that I would want to use is the stuff that I only have the resources for and not the plugin (namely the backpack). So I use NixGen as 363 suggested. If you want them all, you'll have to grab a couple of Bethesda.net for some reason: https://mods.bethesda.net/en/fallout4/mod-detail/4361115 That's just one of them. There are four up there.

I've found old mods work fine as long as they don't have a DLL. There are some mods that have a DLL, but they have the same functionality in a Papyrus script so they still work even though the DLL doesn't load.

The one downside to using NixGen is that the Community Fixes Merged patch won't work because NixGen deletes content. I'll have a look at fixing that when I get back to playing FO4. The Unofficial patch works just fine.

Lastly I use Wrye Bash to install and manage my mods. They just released a new version and are working on the next. They are still working on porting the Bash tags over so the Bashed Patch isn't fully functional.

[Dubbyk]

The CC stuff popping up never really bothered me over much, I never bought anything from the CC and would just ignore the little pop ups when I left vault 101. Hearing that mods that don't have .DLLs mostly still work is good news, many of old mods that I used to have that haven't been updated in forever according to my tracking center are mostly location based mods, stuff that adds new buildings and settlement locations and workshop mods, checking their file lists most of them don't have any .dlls. 

 

Looking at the old mods it does make me sad to see most of the assets outside of .BA2 files, I take it's still recommended to pack your assets into .BA2 files for better performance? Was always just a slog having to repack all of the stuff lol.

[AndalayBay]

Yes, my understanding is that BA2's are better. You can use both the old and the new version. Bethesda changed the version number for BA2's for some reason in NG, so if you're downgrading, you have to repack them all. I've never felt the need to actually pack the loose files into an archive though. I've only got about 100 mods though.

The CC stuff adds a lot of quests. It's all junk to me, so I just Nix it, as it were.

[subaverage]

The so called next gen update broke the Fallout 4 Script Extender and with it every mod that depended on it. F4SE independent mods shouldn't be affected. The script extender and many mods are meanwhile updated. So the question next-gen or pre next-gen might depend on your mods. Do you want to use mods that are essential for you and not updated, yet you might want to stay on pre next-gen. If all your F4SE dependent "core mods" are updated you could give next-gen a try. Regarding an ESL limit I read somewhere that it might be around 2000. Never came even near that number. I run a bit more than 400 plugins without problems. Some people state that there even is a ba2 limit, but it doesn't seem clear if there is one and how many ba2s you can have. The performance impact of loose files depends on your rig, how big and how many the loose files are. I never compressed one of my mods and the game is still running fine. For me it's just as important that the precombines stay as intact as possible. Regarding the older frameworks I personally wouldn't use them any more if you aren't forced to by a mod.

[Dubbyk]

I remembering have to make precombine patches in the CK and it being a pain in the butt. I'm hoping all the stuff I've forgotten about using the CK and FO4edit will come back to me once I start poking around in them again.

Good to hear the .ESL limit is so high, I take it that applies to .ESL Flagged .ESPs as well?

[Glitchfinder]

A lot of this has been covered already, but I'll give some more information:

1. The overwhelming majority of mods survived the next gen update just fine. Anything that was compatible with console worked day 1, and anything that relied on F4SE's papyrus functions was fine once F4SE was updated. The vast majority of things that are currently not compatible with the NG update are precompiled F4SE plugins by authors who have left the community, or authors who are still present but refuse to update. Whether or not those particular mods are essential to you is a question only you can answer.
   
   As a side note, NG did introduce a major performance bug tied to facegen which creates stuttering and freezes any time mods edit NPC_ base records or provide new ones. As a result, X-Cell is considered an essential mod for the current version of FO4.
2. MO2 is extremely prevalent at the moment, but Vortex is not uncommon. In particular, Vortex has a significant portion of the FO4 userbase in part due to the "A Storywealth" collection. NMM is considered old and outdated and is unsupported by many authors, and anyone who would use that or Wrye Bash as their manager for FO4 is going to find themselves on their own for support.
3. .esl files and ESL-flagged ESP files are increasingly common in Fallout 4, especially because they released an update back in 2019 that doubled the amount of contents they are allowed to contain. You can have a total of 4,096 esl files in your load order, and they make patch files essentially free. That said, the process of merging your ESLs into slot FE in your load order can be time consuming, so the more ESL plugins you have, the longer it takes your game to reach the title screen.
   
   On a similar note, the biggest current limitation on load order is the BA2 limit, which results in a crash on or before the title screen if you have too many standard BA2 files, and results in corrupted and/or swapped textures in the game if you have too many BA2 texture archives.
4. The specific frameworks you've mentioned have been rejected by significant portions of the community for a variety of reasons. There are claims of crashes, of not being necessary anymore, etc., but those aren't worth delving into. In their place, there are entirely new frameworks that have cropped up, such as RobCo Patcher.
5. Modding Fallout 4 is just as feasible as it's ever been, and in part due to the smaller community is still easier to sort through and figure out than if you were modding Skyrim Special Edition/Skyrim Anniversary Edition. That said, precombines are just as much of a tripping point as they've always been, though more mod authors are aware of them and working with or around them compared to the past.

[samuraitech]

Dank Rafft  has a lot of clothing, weapon, and crafting mods you may want to look into.

ECO Equipment and Crafting Overhaul.

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/67679

NEO New Equipment Overhaul

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/65761

WOP Weapon Overhaul Project

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/69026

 

LIF Leveled Item Fixes

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/63914

 

Armorsmith Extended and AWKCR Armor and Weapon Keywords Community Resource seem to have fallen out of favor. 

They cause a lot of overhead and compatibility issues.  There are patches you can get on Nexus to replace AWKCR dependency for most major clothing and armor mods.

This mod is an example for AWKCR Patches.

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/40752

 

Vortex and MO2 are the most popular mod managers.  If you want to load and go then use Vortex.  If you want to tweak, use MO2.

Mods using BA2 files are all the rage as well.  Makes games run more efficiently.  Less screen stagger, loading, waiting, etc. 

If you use any environmental mods then make sure the have ba2 not loose files.  Luxor's mods use ba2.  A lot of people are using ba2. 

If you use ENB presets you may need to install them and play around with them in game.  An ENB preset that worked well for one person may not look good or perform well for you.

Use this to remove ENB preset cleanly so you can try again. 

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/5347

 

I will stop for now.  Post getting too long.