Can you ESMify ESPs to free up memory?

[Grogrokl]

According to this thread ESP files are bad because "All temporary references from regular plugins are loaded into the game before the main menu"  and therefore will always be loaded into memory at all times. Mods should instead be ESM in order to save memory.

So my question is if this problem can be fixed by simply ESMifying the plugin in xEdit? If this is the case, if it's this easy to fix the problem - why doesn't all mod authors update their mods with an ESMified version?

Edited Friday at 01:38 AM by Grogrokl

[Radioactivelad]

Theoretically, but you're likely to run in to a lot of issues with scripts that need to be referencing persistent objects- thus breaking the mod. Voiceacting folders also need to have their names updated since they use the file extension for some reason.

It's not necessarily an easy, or at least quick fix to make a mod in to an esm when you previously didn't understand the nuances of ESPs/ESMs. Certainly not when you're coming back to them long after release, from a period where those nuances weren't widely known.

[JimboUK]

In addition to the above ESM's can make mods harder to remove mid game, for example a mod that disables the bar in the Goodsprings pub and replaces it with tables could be removed mid game if it's an ESP but not if it's a ESM, removing the ESP version would see the tables vanish and the previously disabled bar reappear, removing an ESM version would see the tables vanish but the bar remain disabled because that change is now in your save. 

[Grogrokl]

6 hours ago, Radioactivelad said:

Theoretically, but you're likely to run in to a lot of issues with scripts that need to be referencing persistent objects- thus breaking the mod. Voiceacting folders also need to have their names updated since they use the file extension for some reason.

It's not necessarily an easy, or at least quick fix to make a mod in to an esm when you previously didn't understand the nuances of ESPs/ESMs. Certainly not when you're coming back to them long after release, from a period where those nuances weren't widely known.

You just need to add an ESM flag in xEdit in order to ESMify it. That's very easy and won't affect scripts.

It is another thing to create a new empty ESM file and then copy over all the records to it from the ESP which could affect scripts since all records will get new FormIDs.

My question is if the first method is enough in order to get rid of the memory issue? If only the second method works then I understand why so few have taken the time to convert their ESPs into ESMs.

Edited Friday at 10:38 PM by Grogrokl

[Grogrokl]

1 hour ago, JimboUK said:

In addition to the above ESM's can make mods harder to remove mid game, for example a mod that disables the bar in the Goodsprings pub and replaces it with tables could be removed mid game if it's an ESP but not if it's a ESM, removing the ESP version would see the tables vanish and the previously disabled bar reappear, removing an ESM version would see the tables vanish but the bar remain disabled because that change is now in your save. 

Hmm ok. Good to know.

Update: I just tested this in game and you are wrong. The bar did come back when I disabled the ESM file that had previously removed it.

Edited Friday at 10:35 PM by Grogrokl

[madmongo]

I would be interested in knowing exactly how much memory you can save by doing this. In my experience, the only place where you really need to be careful with memory is with texture sizes. This is especially true since the game's texture caching system is known to leak memory. I use lower quality texture settings in the game and avoid high resolution texture mods, and I can play for many hours without running out of memory and crashing, even with mods that add a lot of things to a lot of different areas. If I change to high quality textures, the game will crash, usually within 15 minutes to half an hour with my current mod setup.

The other area where I have run into issues is running too many mods that add too many things. In my particular case, issues show up when I try to run TTW in addition to a mod that I am working on which adds multiple worldspaces and a lot of stuff. From what I've been able to determine, it's a problem with save file corruption when you have too much stuff.

So in total, the two areas I try to keep under control are texture sizes and save game bloat, and that is enough to keep my game stable.

It would take a huge amount of references to chew up as much memory as a single 4k texture. This is what makes me wonder about the effectiveness of using esm files to save memory. I personally have never measured the memory usage though to see if I'm correct or not.

If anyone has detailed numbers, I'd like to see them.

[JimboUK]

49 minutes ago, madmongo said:

I would be interested in knowing exactly how much memory you can save by doing this. In my experience, the only place where you really need to be careful with memory is with texture sizes. This is especially true since the game's texture caching system is known to leak memory. I use lower quality texture settings in the game and avoid high resolution texture mods, and I can play for many hours without running out of memory and crashing, even with mods that add a lot of things to a lot of different areas. If I change to high quality textures, the game will crash, usually within 15 minutes to half an hour with my current mod setup.

The other area where I have run into issues is running too many mods that add too many things. In my particular case, issues show up when I try to run TTW in addition to a mod that I am working on which adds multiple worldspaces and a lot of stuff. From what I've been able to determine, it's a problem with save file corruption when you have too much stuff.

So in total, the two areas I try to keep under control are texture sizes and save game bloat, and that is enough to keep my game stable.

It would take a huge amount of references to chew up as much memory as a single 4k texture. This is what makes me wonder about the effectiveness of using esm files to save memory. I personally have never measured the memory usage though to see if I'm correct or not.

If anyone has detailed numbers, I'd like to see them.

I remember being told that they removed references from the main game in patches when they added DLC's to save memory, I think it was in one of Triangecity's videos, that said they were working within the ridiculous memory restraints of consoles, 512mb for the 360 and 256mb+256mb for textures on the PS3 so things might have been tight. But yeah, textures are the real villain, resolution should be as well but it doesn't seem to make a massive difference, I was messing around with 8K (7680 × 4320) and it was fine with NMC's medium textures, it just looked awful because you could see every imperfection. 

@Grogrokl It shouldn't have done, maybe another plugin is putting it back or you loaded an earlier save. 

 

[laclongquan]

  

On 1/17/2025 at 7:28 AM, Grogrokl said:

According to this thread ESP files are bad because "All temporary references from regular plugins are loaded into the game before the main menu"  and therefore will always be loaded into memory at all times. Mods should instead be ESM in order to save memory.

So my question is if this problem can be fixed by simply ESMifying the plugin in xEdit? If this is the case, if it's this easy to fix the problem - why doesn't all mod authors update their mods with an ESMified version?

It's a thread about Skyrim engine/mods, man~

It's a different game engine altogether. I know there's a lot of similiarities between Skyrim and Fallout engine

But it's the little details that will kill your game with barely a blink.

It might be a clear problems with those experienced modders, but for noobs like us, they will create more troubles for us than helps.

What I have understanded throughout my recent working with esm is that there's a lot of unsaid things about esm-esp that those modders simply didnt THINK that's necessary to mention~

I can tell you straight out there's a lot of good points in keeping esp, and not esm-sified it. We only should do an esm if we do new cells and can create new navmesh for them. That's it. Otherwise esp is king.

Edited Saturday at 05:30 AM by laclongquan

[Grogrokl]

12 hours ago, JimboUK said:

@Grogrokl It shouldn't have done, maybe another plugin is putting it back or you loaded an earlier save.

No other mod put it back and I loaded the correct save file (I saved after the esm had removed the bar).