Eltiraaz Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 The Evolution and Big-Bang THEORIES aren't fact! I can't believe how ignorant some people can be!! The very reason that these two propositions are called theories is because they haven't been proven!! And there is LOTS of evidence to disprove them by proving the existence of God. I know of one particular happening a few years ago, but I can't seem to find a URL at the moment. When I find it I'll put it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThetaOrionis01 Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 Evolution and the Big Bang theory may be theories - but they provide a self-consistent and inherently logical framework which explains how life originated and arrived at its current state, and more importantly, they fit available experimental data. Data which ARE fact. Your theory that god exists is also only a theory - but one which has no experimental data to back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marxist ßastard Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 Actually, that's called a hypothesis. ...Which puts it on the same level as a five-year-old's hypothesis that ice is made from white paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingFox Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 Hmm. Interesting commentary. I happen to agree with Adamastor in that religion and science can exist togather; science is not a replacement for religion. Take the Big Bang theory. This does not negate the idea that God created the world "in six days and on the seventh day He rested." The Big Bang theory merely creates an explanation of how the universe was created, while the Genesis reading displays an expression of emotion and ideas of how the universe was created. This is not to say either one is more valid than the other. On the contrary, it distinctly shows that both science (Big Bang) and religion (Creationism) can co-exist in the same plane. God created Man in His own image, the Bible tells us. This does not mean that evolution does not exist. This is the Bible's way of telling Christians that God is relational, just as humans are. Humans do not "look" like God, but express the a similar characteristic of God: that Man can love. This reciprocated relationship is the basis of the Christian faith, and Jesus Christ is the manifestation of such an idea: he was the ultimate relational being (being both fully-God and fully-Human).But evolution, too, can still be "true": God, creating the universe (through the Big Bang, or whatever you believe... and I mean not to get into a discussion of what happened before the Big Bang as it is impossible to understand) set in motion a chain of events to create Man. Though God may not have created Man by using mud from a river, He still "inadvertantly" created Man through history, be that directly through Creationism, or indirectly through evolution. I mean not to say that Christianity is the best religion, or that if you do not believe in Jesus Christ you are going to Hell (and I believe it is inappropriate for such accusations to be made on these forums by its members). I am merely giving examples of how science and religion can exist together. Now, back on topic of the universe. The universe is expanding, as proven by the red shift of the galaxies in the universe (red shift = moving away). Now, there is some discrepency on the end of the universe (I think we have established that either the Big Bang or Creationism is the way to go with its beginning......). Depending on the mass of the universe, the universe may expand forever, stop, or collapse in a Big Crunch. The "visible" universe accounts for ounly aboyt one third of the complete mass of the universe. The other two thirds is MIA... unaccounted for. This "missing" matter, or Dark Matter, is the deciding factor in the universe's fate. Too much mass = Big Crunch. Equal visible/invisible matter ratio, universe will stop and "live forever." Not enough mass = universe will keep expanding forever, and eventually all the stars wioll be extingushed as all the energy is used up, and the universe will be a giant, "dead" place. Now, allow me to be the Devil's advocate to the devout Christians (myself being one of them). Should the universe "die" in the first and third scenarios, and all life is destroyed, does God still exist? It is a very tricky question, requiring much thought. God requires a relationship with humans in order to exist. So, if humans no longer exist, can God? My belief? Yes, to an extent. Once one dies and attains Grace (oneness) with God, one's soul enters a state of perfection (due to Grace), i.e. Heaven. Now, God, I feel, can be sustained on such a relationship, since oneness is the most intimate relationship, for both parties. Should all souls sin from God (become distant), one enters one's own "Hell," or total destruction of relation of any kind(Hell and heaven are both states of being, I feel, not "places"). Now, though God has no relation with anyone if everyone has sinned from God, he still must exist for such a state of being to exist. And yet, from what I said before, God cannot exist without relaation. This is the paradox of Christianity, one that requires deep thought. Just some ideas toput on the table. And please, don;t let this get into a flame-fest. It's an interesting thread and very much worth discussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaten by an Ugly Stick Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 For a change of subject: How shall Humanity end? Shall we leave a mark upon it? Will the universe end in "fire" or "ice"? or will it end at all? The final statement is:All hail the penguin! :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Switch Posted August 30, 2003 Share Posted August 30, 2003 if u want a different subject start a new thread please :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThetaOrionis01 Posted August 31, 2003 Share Posted August 31, 2003 As far as I am aware, latest reserch findings seem to indicate that the expansion of the universe is accelerating - propelled by 'dark energy'. Dark energy would appear to be a property of space itself - perhaps a curvature of spacetime the opposite of that caused by gravity. Research in cosmic microwave background mapping may also result in researchers being able to detect 'quanta' of space time - perhaps spacetime isn't a continuum after all. All this is current research, so I'm afraid I don't know too much about it yet. I think that superstring theory may be able to provide the answers...if only we were able to understand them. Currently we lack the maths to solve the equatios of superstring theory. However, the concepts behind the theory are fascinating. If anyone is interested, I would recommend 'The Elegant Universe' and 'Hyperspace' as further reading. Maybe the answer is '42' after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamastor Posted August 31, 2003 Author Share Posted August 31, 2003 i dont believe that the universe was created in 6 days but perhaps it is just a reinterpretation of a reinterpretation of a reinterpretation of what actually happened. the bible (or any other religios text) should not be taken literally. i have read quite a bit into the possiblity of extraterestrial intervention being seen as divine intervention. with an open enough mind allot (if not all) happenings in said texts can be explained as a 1st century persons' undersanding of "et's playing god", pardon the pun. i am by no means an expert on the bible, but it is a possiblility... im not sure of the name of the book, but it was by an established author tho wrote "chariots of the gods" or something like that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASCLEPUS Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 According to 'Astronomy' magazine, the universe is indeed expanding at an accelerated rate. The prediction is (if I recall this rightly) that within five billion years over half the current visible galaxies will be too distant to see. Within twenty billion years our current galactic cluster will be all that is visible in the dark and lonely night... This is if the constants hold steady, but since the rate of acceleration seems to be increasing proportionate to the distance of seperation. In other words the acceleration is increasing exponentially. If that is the case then the total isolation of our galactic cluster could occur within two billion years or less. Not that it will affect any of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Switch Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 i dont believe that the universe was created in 6 days but perhaps it is just a reinterpretation of a reinterpretation of a reinterpretation of what actually happened. the bible (or any other religios text) should not be taken literally. i have read quite a bit into the possiblity of extraterestrial intervention being seen as divine intervention. with an open enough mind allot (if not all) happenings in said texts can be explained as a 1st century persons' undersanding of "et's playing god", pardon the pun. i am by no means an expert on the bible, but it is a possiblility... im not sure of the name of the book, but it was by an established author tho wrote "chariots of the gods" or something like that....well i dont believe it was created in 6 days either. i think a lot of what is said in the bible/what God said was just a way so the people back then could comprehend what he was talking about. when he said 6 days he could have meant 6 trillion years or something :P and the four horses of the apocolypse i doubt that means 4 horses will come in and smush us. for all we know it could have just been a way of saying spaceships :P and also im pretty sure its not reinterpretations from where so many people have wrote it, cos just think about it, the monks who copied the bible for all those centuries would have feared God's wrath if they didnt copy the bible EXACTLY the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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