Booyah , You Can Take Back Your Democracy

[Nintii]

It's always easier to view the pool, four corners and all when you're standing outside of it than when you're

in it and see only half.

Nevertheless, idealism in any government is unrealistic, everyone has flaws, human flaws.

If a legislator has power to control finances then they are in all probability going to be pursued by money

to prop up said money's interest.

Having said this, laws etc. will be passed to favour them at the expense of the man in the street so then

they are running the show ... the elites and not the citizen.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Nintii

[HeyYou]

 

 

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong but doesn't Harbinge say that this movement bypasses all those fatcats ?

 

Yep that would be exactly right , that's the whole point. You don't need them. So strange listen to people belly ache about how things are messed up in Washington , then show there is actually a way provided to them to whap Washington up side the head by their founding fathers only to have them slide right back into the belly aching as to why that can't be done .

Forgive me if I point out (once again) the methodology of your argument ignores the process that amendments must surmount. The flaw that I have yet to see being addressed, is how you get thousands of individual state legislators to vote against their own interests. These are the same people that voted for mandatory health care for you but reserve their privilege of private congressional care for themselves. Sorry, but I am too old in the ways of the world to believe in the altruism of politicians, the gun to their head that you postulate isn't loaded and they know it. .

 

Well how many rep's are in the California State Legislature , 100 - 200 ? somewhere and yet they went against their own interests as you put it . So why did they do this , because its being done on the local level , the guy who represents you locally , who lives down the road or across the way or where ever in your area and instead of petitioning Congress you can bang on his door or call him on the phone or whatever . So when the moment comes and just as in the California Legislature when the speaker stood and asked does anyone (reps) want to stand and speak out against this , no one did because they knew they would be committing political suicide on a local level . That's how its done.

 

Not like this is new. Bills of this nature come up in congress on a fairly regular basis. 99.99% of them never even make it out of committee. Aurielius, and TRoaches have both already demonstrated why this legislation has zero chance of getting anywhere. You are asking the very people that benefit the MOST from the current system, to end it. Terribly sorry, that is NEVER going to happen. How many of the voting public are actually in favor of this is irrelevant, as congress has already more than adequately demonstrated that what the majority wants, doesn't figure in to their votes in any way, shape, form, or manner.

 

No it has not been done on a fairly regular basis , only twice in American history and its got nothing to do with Congress . Them providing themselves with preferential healthcare or ignoring what the majority wants has nothing to do with it , because they (Congress) have no say in this , I'll repeat that, they (Congress) have no say in this. In an Article V Constitutional Convention what Congress , the President , the Supreme Court or any of their lobbyists or donors say or want is irrelevant and using arguments based on that is likewise irrelevant . The only people to which this applies is you and your local representative. Its the safety valve the founding fathers put in the Constitution in order to save the Republic from itself.

 

And once again, never happen.

 

If you look, you will see that no matter which way this goes, it either has to originate in congress, or be requested by a two thirds majority of state legislatures. Currently, there are TWO states that are considering this. Neither has accomplished it yet.

 

Also, if you actually READ what I posted, you will note that I stated "Bills of this nature.....". That is, in fact, correct. There was one just recently, within the last two months. It went nowhere. (not a surprise.)

 

In all reality, the elite do indeed own the government, and the Supreme court is making rulings that ensure that their hold will only get stronger. Citizens United decision was only the first in a series of dominoes that are falling, leading us to a plutocracy, that pretends to be a representative democracy. The voters voice means absolutely nothing here.

[Aurielius]

@Hey You

Sigh....it's obvious that we don't have a grasp on our own internal political realities. Observing the process closely over a series of decades I'm afraid disqualifies us...what we need is an outside observer that can point us in the right direction...someone who is more conversant with the working realities of amending the Constitution...you know that document that we both swore to uphold and defend.

As a side note..representative democracy?...last time I checked we were a Republic. :tongue:

[HeyYou]

@Hey You

Sigh....it's obvious that we don't have a grasp on our own internal political realities. Observing the process closely over a series of decades I'm afraid disqualifies us...what we need is an outside observer that can point us in the right direction...someone who is more conversant with the working realities of amending the Constitution...you know that document that we both swore to uphold and defend.

As a side note..representative democracy?...last time I checked we were a Republic. :tongue:

Most of the literature I read use the terms interchangeably. :)

 

So, since we live here, experience it directly, participate in it, and defend it, we must have too much information to form an unbiased opinion. :D

[Lisnpuppy]

Just because someone doesn't actively or personally experience something doesn't mean that they can not have insight. Where would all of us armchair historians be otherwise? Regardless....I think you have stuck your forks in that enough to know it to be done? Move on to your next points please assuming you have some.~Lisnpuuppy

[Aurielius]

http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac177/Aurielius/july4th.jpg