Israel, and Gaza.

[edgeburner]

 

To an Ideologue, Ideology is real and it's inconceivable that anything done in that name can be wrong. That's what is so dangerous about these people. They see where they are and where they want to go and anything destroyed inbetween is justified be the result and if the result doesn't accomplish what they set out to do, it is someone else fault, since, as I've said before. it is inconceivable that anything done in that name can be wrong.

 

President Obama has not pleased anyone, fully. Not the left or the right. But as I remember Ronald Regan didn't fully please anyone ether. History has placed President Reagan in the light it has to those to whom he matters. The left and the right have their own opinion of the man and it will be the same with President Obama. The facts will be lost in a cloud of data and statistics that each side will us to justify their opinion of the man and the one fact that will never be fully realized is that President Reagan didn't destroy America, jus the desires of the left and President Obama will not destroy America, but the desires of the right.

 

This too will pass!

 

Not bad....not bad atall.:)

 

The big difference today is the 'partisan divide' Is much more pronounced than it was back in the days of Regan and Carter. My cousin used to work for Carter and the DNC till about the mid 80's and he often tells me about how both parties of the house and senate used to meet and discuss legislation over drinks at a local bar....as friends!!. He told me that party affiliation didn't really matter back then. They respected each other and put the nation first.

 

[JimboUK]

 

Ask yourself how the world would be if America were not there to step in and enforce it's own version of reality?

 

 

I wouldn't call it a version of reality, but, I often wonder just what this globe would resemble if we isolated ourselves......Don't like what I imagined. The fact is that all of us in the "free world" have to stand together if we want to keep our freedom.

 

 

Ask yourself, would Europe be in the clutches of Russian oil and gas, if they would have to deal with Putin without the US? I think not. They would have diversified their supply so they could have dealt with him, without endangering themselves.

Actually, If it weren't for the huge "green" lobby in America we could sell oil much cheaper to Europe that Russia is asking. Unfortunately , the said lobby is playing scientific politics (the worst kind) and not reporting the skeptic findings, and continue to use an unsubstantiated hypothesis as reason to heap a guilt trip on us all, and to push alternative energy sources that are not ready for prime time on us....The climate debate ain't science, it's politics. Putin knows that and probably bellows a huge laugh every time he downs a shot of 'wodka".

 

 

Europe doesn't need US help to screw its energy supply up, the green lobby and national leaders in their thrall are doing a fantastic job of that on their own. The entire free world is without any sort of leadership, Obama is as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike, Cameron is the most useless creature to have ever occupied No.10, Hollande lives in a world of his own and Merkel is more interested in building a European superstate than she is in the safety of the people within it. In ISIS the free world faces its biggest threat since the Nazis and from a group that makes those Nazis look like kittens, thanks to western incompetence ISIS is rolling in money from captured oil fields, does anyone seriously think that money won't be used to do us harm? And what has our response been? sending arms to the Kurds and Iraqi government, yeah, we've put our safely in their hands.

[edgeburner]

 

Europe doesn't need US help to screw its energy supply up, the green lobby and national leaders in their thrall are doing a fantastic job of that on their own. The entire free world is without any sort of leadership, Obama is as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike, Cameron is the most useless creature to have ever occupied No.10, Hollande lives in a world of his own and Merkel is more interested in building a European superstate than she is in the safety of the people within it. In ISIS the free world faces its biggest threat since the Nazis and from a group that makes those Nazis look like kittens, thanks to western incompetence ISIS is rolling in money from captured oil fields, does anyone seriously think that money won't be used to do us harm? And what has our response been? sending arms to the Kurds and Iraqi government, yeah, we've put our safely in their hands.

 

Well keyed, Jim!

 

There are no FDR's or Churchill's to wrap everything up and present the policy in logical and sensible terms... If that is possible in today's political environment....None of our currents have the balls to take the stand....to put their ass on the proverbial line to protect their nations(S).

 

politics trump all....

Edited August 27, 2014 by edgeburner

[kvnchrist]

 

Ask yourself how the world would be if America were not there to step in and enforce it's own version of reality?

 

 

I wouldn't call it a version of reality, but, I often wonder just what this globe would resemble if we isolated ourselves......Don't like what I imagined. The fact is that all of us in the "free world" have to stand together if we want to keep our freedom.

 

 

Ask yourself, would Europe be in the clutches of Russian oil and gas, if they would have to deal with Putin without the US? I think not. They would have diversified their supply so they could have dealt with him, without endangering themselves.

Actually, If it weren't for the huge "green" lobby in America we could sell oil much cheaper to Europe that Russia is asking. Unfortunately , the said lobby is playing scientific politics (the worst kind) and not reporting the skeptic findings, and continue to use an unsubstantiated hypothesis as reason to heap a guilt trip on us all, and to push alternative energy sources that are not ready for prime time on us....The climate debate ain't science, it's politics. Putin knows that and probably bellows a huge laugh every time he downs a shot of 'wodka".

 

Reality is a term I use to describe the manner in which we live. Our culture, our ethics, our morals and our products.

 

As for imagining what the world would be in America stayed out of the worlds issues, ask yourself if there would have been a WWII if we didn't tip the hand of the Allies and bring defeat to Germany. From what i've gathered both sides where down almost to their needs and with a truce, the Germany Kaiser would not have been forced to abdicate. There would never had been a Weimer Republic to collapse and Hitler would have not had the anger of Germany to fuel his rise.

 

What exactly are we free from? We have rights, not freedoms and is it not our government and our culture that is evolving and isn't that the issue that is on peoples minds. The greatest enemy humanity has is fear and the two parties that run our government has used that emotion effectively to turn the country against itself to promote themselves as the countries lone savior and you speak of freedom. What freedom?

 

As far as the green lobby both the right and the left are embracing that. Have you not seen the products that our industry has created to cater the that same idealism.

 

I have no facts about this issue and really don't give a rats butt about it. Fear runs rampant over the entire issue with the left afraid of what the planet is experiencing and the right fearing the cost of something they are skeptical about. As far as I'm concerned, If you throw enough money at something you will ultimately get the answers you agree with.

 

I would like to have the revenue that such a sale would bring, but I would stress the need to find something each country could depend on without having their mouths surgically attached to another countries scrotum.

[kvnchrist]

 

 

To an Ideologue, Ideology is real and it's inconceivable that anything done in that name can be wrong. That's what is so dangerous about these people. They see where they are and where they want to go and anything destroyed inbetween is justified be the result and if the result doesn't accomplish what they set out to do, it is someone else fault, since, as I've said before. it is inconceivable that anything done in that name can be wrong.

 

President Obama has not pleased anyone, fully. Not the left or the right. But as I remember Ronald Regan didn't fully please anyone ether. History has placed President Reagan in the light it has to those to whom he matters. The left and the right have their own opinion of the man and it will be the same with President Obama. The facts will be lost in a cloud of data and statistics that each side will us to justify their opinion of the man and the one fact that will never be fully realized is that President Reagan didn't destroy America, jus the desires of the left and President Obama will not destroy America, but the desires of the right.

 

This too will pass!

Not bad....not bad atall. :smile:

 

The big difference today is the 'partisan divide' Is much more pronounced than it was back in the days of Regan and Carter. My cousin used to work for Carter and the DNC till about the mid 80's and he often tells me about how both parties of the house and senate used to meet and discuss legislation over drinks at a local bar....as friends!!. He told me that party affiliation didn't really matter back then. They respected each other and put the nation first.

 

 

 

 

I think the real difference is the advent of opinionated news reporting and the internet. There is less face to face discussion and more and more anonymous individuals addicted to the power of the microphone over people who have abandoned their responsibility to think for themselves and search for their own facts. They would rather play the next new game on Playstation or see what others think about their last posting on Facebook, than deal with the real world.

 

The puppet masters/ media sources they go to for information give them a pre-approved version of reality that they take to the voting booth and they empower their elected officials to act accordingly. These elected official poll the electorate and use the feedback to format their speeches and tell their pubic what they want to hear to gain reelection. The leadership of each party gives the media their talking points and the entire cycle repeats itself.

 

Evolution occurs everywhere and never ceases. It is just as obvious that the partisan divide has never been so great as it is that we all have never been this old. This divide is a progression and as the material gains and resources begin to decay those who drive this political little game will get more and more desperate as they see their control over things diminish. Their is a point when the puppet masters can no longer control their puppets and I hope that I'm not around when that happens because I think a lot of things will come to and end.

[edgeburner]

 

Reality is a term I use to describe the manner in which we live. Our culture, our ethics, our morals and our products.

 

So...how many nations have we forced to adapt to our culture, ect?

Can you name them?

'

One thing that always amazes me is how folks seem to 'verify' history's alternative scenarios to their own liking/political view....unfortunately, history does not offer alternative scenarios ...all we can do is speculate via our bias.

 

 

 

As far as the green lobby both the right and the left are embracing that. Have you not seen the products that our industry has created to cater the that same idealism.

Have you seen the bills that keeps these products subsidized? They cannot stand on their own merit (like oil and gas) but millions of our tax dollars are keeping them afloat so they can rip us off even more in the future. You really can't see how politics has poisoned climate science?

 

 

[kvnchrist]

 

 

Reality is a term I use to describe the manner in which we live. Our culture, our ethics, our morals and our products.

 

So...how many nations have we forced to adapt to our culture, ect?

Can you name them?

'

One thing that always amazes me is how folks seem to 'verify' history's alternative scenarios to their own liking/political view....unfortunately, history does not offer alternative scenarios ...all we can do is speculate via our bias.

 

 

 

As far as the green lobby both the right and the left are embracing that. Have you not seen the products that our industry has created to cater the that same idealism.

Have you seen the bills that keeps these products subsidized? They cannot stand on their own merit (like oil and gas) but millions of our tax dollars are keeping them afloat so they can rip us off even more in the future. You really can't see how politics has poisoned climate science?

 

 

 

 

 

Go down the line of those countries that we have supported with foreign aid and inundated with our products. How many countries have we either installed our own pick for that countries leader like The Shaw of Iran or leaders like Hosni Mubarak. I would suggest you look at the long history of colonization from the West which doesn't exactly exclude America. Try Cuba of the 1950's and more recently, the Philippians for examples of us pushing our own culture.

 

I have seen money and the power it wields morph many things. I have also seen products and business practices that have prospered by green thinking. Everything from aerodynamics that help lessen mpg to atm machines that ask the user to forgo paper receipts to save a tree.

[edgeburner]

 

There is less face to face discussion and more and more anonymous individuals addicted to the power of the microphone over people who have abandoned their responsibility to think for themselves and search for their own facts. They would rather play the next new game on Playstation or see what others think about their last posting on Facebook, than deal with the real world.

Amen! No argument from me on that one.

 

Howabout the celebrity worship aspect? It amazes me that folks are actually more concerned with what their favorite celebrity is eating for lunch than is what the government is doing to them in their own backyards......" hero worship" has gone beyond the usual aspect...."what is trending"? Do you utter the word "like" multiple times on every sentence you pronounce? Do you have an insatiable lust to be like everyone else?

"r" "u " cool?

Gawd help us! :)

 

 

[edgeburner]

Go down the line of those countries that we have supported with foreign aid and inundated with our products. How many countries have we either installed our own pick for that countries leader like The Shaw of Iran or leaders like Hosni Mubarak. I would suggest you look at the long history of colonization from the West which doesn't exactly exclude America. Try Cuba of the 1950's and more recently, the Philippians for examples of us pushing our own culture.

 

 

so, how may nations have we forced to adapt to our culture??

[kvnchrist]

 

Go down the line of those countries that we have supported with foreign aid and inundated with our products. How many countries have we either installed our own pick for that countries leader like The Shaw of Iran or leaders like Hosni Mubarak. I would suggest you look at the long history of colonization from the West which doesn't exactly exclude America. Try Cuba of the 1950's and more recently, the Philippians for examples of us pushing our own culture.

 

 

so, how may nations have we forced to adapt to our culture??

 

when you addict a person to drugs and then request that there adhere to your standards, with the indication that they will be cut off if they don't oblige you. Is that force? I think so. We've given our money out to gain influence and when the target country is used to that infusion of money into their economy is this not the same as an addiction?