spoiler Why does everyone here seem and/or say they kill Loghain every time?

[lorelai2009]

Yes, and if only your character knew about the Archdemon slaying thing at the Landsmeet it would be easier to persuade Alistair that Loghain is needed, but alas, Riordan likes soap operas :tongue: kidding, the idea of the choice between the 2 is good, the way it's written...well....I know I would poke Riordan-'tell us, tell us, what are those compelling reasons, hmmmm?' and if he would say that it's a secret, I would say "BS, Riordan, the Joining is apparently a big secret too, but Anora knows it's deadly and says so in front of all the Landsmeet, so don't give me that and tell us already!"

And more important, sparing him DOES NOT equal liking him or agreeing to his actions! The world is not so black and white, those that spare him, love him-those that kill him, hate him...

[Lawlder]

Loghain would make a better Grey Warden, and I like his character more, but I look at things from my characters eyes and, well, I wouldn't be too eager to spare someone who has made so much effort to kill me just to prove his point.

 

I kill Loghain even if I don't like doing it, so I guess I support "eye for an eye" ideology.

[Shacary]

Totally agree with Rustyblade about the book Loghain [ i read them both] . Loghain was not impressive in either of them to me. His character was always self serving, and to be honest i didnt find what he did that " heroic" to begin with. I found Maric scared and frightened, but still rising up to take the next step forward more of a hero.

Nope, his few god qualities , do not excuse his conniving, dictator-like, stomping over feraldons citizens or its lands. He demonstrated no redeeming feats there, and again i am struck with all the pre-ostagar planning. howes attack on couslands [ HAD to be iniated before ostager battle] the planning of eamons poisoning etc. I think he hanged himself. No mercy! Kill Loghain!

[mondotomhead]

I made Logain a warden only once to see how the game played out. Allistair was very, very angry toward me. I went all they way to the ritual with Morrigan not saving any games because I knew I wasn't going to keep this particular senario. It just made me to sick knowing that Allistair would be a wandering drunk. I love Allistair to much to have a game end like that

[XTR3M368]

Here is why I only "kept" Loghain once...

 

He tries to kill me or have me killed on a regular basis...

He is an opportunistic liar that is fixated on the wrong problem of who the real enemy is...

He tries to poison the Arl of Redcliffe which is despicable and seems out of character for his past glory which goes to show he is no longer fit to lead anything...

As annoying as Alistair is, I choose to keep him because he never tries to kill me....

He lies about the wardens to cover his retreat at Ostagar...

He goes in with slavers. I HATE slavers or anyone that would do that kind of thing and getting to kill the slavers is one of my favorite things to do in DA...

He is a big bully and I LOVE to put a smack down on bullies and he only looks at doing what is right after he has no choice and I have completely handed his ass to him at the Landsmeet. Too little too late....it reminds me of the criminals you see in jail after they are caught and act all sorry. IMO they are only sorry they got caught....it is the same with Loghain IMO.

He throws in with Howe who killed my PC's family. I don't understand how anyone could "forgive" that in the game unless they are playing as an elf or dwarf or mage. I almost always play as human noble and avenging my parents is always the way to go there.

 

Loghain says something like "the measure of a man is by his enemies".....partly true...but what is more important to me is who a man's allies are....let's make a list for Loghain....

Arl Rendon Howe...the tool

the Tevinter slavers

An apostate mage sent to poison another noble

the assassins that sent Zevran

That pompous ass he sent to Orsammar

His arrogant minions in the side mission that got kicked out of the ban's lands

The chumps that tried to kill me in Lothering when you meet Leliana

and the list goes on....

How anyone can keep a schuck like Loghain after all that is beyond me unless they play darkside or hate all other races.

[brokenergy]

I would save Loghain because I think about the long term future of the Grey Wardens in Ferelden. Does this mean I can join Vader and be in darkside? You don't let your emotions to make your choices for you.

[Thandal]

That line of Marric's is such a crock. It presumes a level of integrity and nobility about both of the parties which Loghain totally fails to understand or exhibit.

 

He is a power-mad paranoid who will stick at nothing to secure that power. His (self-)delusion that he is doing it for "the great good" only makes him pathetic, in the way a mad dog can be. But pathetic or not, the dog still needs to be put down.

[VGfallout]

heh... i've kept up with this thread through email notifications during my recent travels, with dragon rage 2 on the horizon - hey why the hell not, it's interesting to see the more popular comments & reasoning behind them and of course not at all surprising

 

the effects of time & aging affect those who have lived in a constant state of warfare/conflict/extreme stress 100 times more than the "natural process" would, especially in conflicts that involve the sovereignty of an entire region

 

no matter how much life can harden a person through the experiences & lessons it delivers - we can never escape what is the core of our earliest life experiences that mold the instinctive-level perception/understanding of life as we are seeing it now - hence the primary factor in inferiority complexes, misc. insecurities, motivational incentives, reward systems, "approachability thresholds", style of humor, god damn it you name it. and this is EXCLUDING any sort of NATURAL deficiency one may come into existence with (and have no control over) , manic depression, hyper activity, hyper sensitivity, low intelligence, random genetic anomalies or a weakness to particular illnesses or diseases hahah - too deep for a video game...but i mean you have to take as Much as you can into account when making decisions that involve the termination of extinguishing the presence of another in this planet, especially since you NEVER know the WHOLE story, you can't unless you become someone else (...? hows that for circular logic, if thats even a valid term...stay in school heh).

 

so we know that as a human, one cannot escape the deeply embedded paranoid and eventual fearful state of mind that begin to dictate ones actions based on..well..what i said a second ago. because of how subtle the progress of the wear-and-tear on every aspect of the living entity is (in this case our infamous mr. lo-gizzle), the inevitable & only remaining shell of cowardice that is left in a mans soul usually "comes out" and announces itself in extreme & what is perceived as "completely unexpected" behavior from the person in question (lo-gizzle)

 

after a certain amount of time under distress the ability to "be who i want to be, choose what i want to do" deteriorates on a chemical/biometric level, which eventually by passes one's will power or other core "character traits" (as in not the ones found in the GUI)

 

 

 

and what of loghains?

 

grew up with a 'busboy' status - but through an act of courage/kindness was bumped up to a noble. if im not mistaken, this was either never done before, or extremely rare. so he already walks around with this whole "the farmer-noble" label that will only go so far unless his social rank is secured through offspring via marriage to another in a position of power. in other words he's hanging onto his status as a newborn clings to a nipple from the ripest titty

 

genuinely believing the darkspawn are not a threat & that the GWardens are trying to find a reason to have purpose in the land/establish a stronger "base" in fereldan, good king cailan's (chill-ass surfer dude who's cool as hell but doesnt belong on the front-line) decision to get Orleas or whatever's help is perceived by loghain as the True & Main threat, and rightfully so - for had he been "born into times of independence" like king cailan he would see past the...past & realize they need all the help they can get

 

a worsening shellshock condition, paranoia, rooted hatred for an enemy that all but raped his pet turtles, lack of confidence in a young & inexperienced king, inclusion of these so-called warriors of legend - the gray wardens, etc etc etc...naturally made him put aside (not forget) his history/loyalty with maric because after all cailan is maric's son and not maric... & of course in loghains eyes - just as much of a threat as anything else if willing to risk his life on the front lines in a battle with the darkspawn "mob", compromising everything he had bled & nearly died for so the child-king can play out his fantasy - thats how he would see it more or less. dont empathize or pitty the man, but acknowledge his deteriorating/deteriorated mental condition for what it is

 

you see, loghain had no control over his emotions which lead him to his conclusions, they were as much a part of him as any other "mechanical" organ in his body, it's the price of belonging to your species, he only had control of how to execute his strategy with the genuine intention of securing fereldans independence at any cost. yes yes, even if it meant selling elven slaves (for all the gasps & disgust the nobles expressed towards slavery, they are laughably hypocritical based on the fact that an "alienage" even exists), allowing howe to pull a jack-move on the couslands in exchange for unconditional support when the s*** hit the fan (little s***-particles begin shooting in multiple directions at high velocity taking the form of hardened pellets....laughs!), and silencing anyone who tries to disrupt his plans. its not as if loghain told howe to put people in his dungeon ass-rape machines, he simply told howe to take care of it so he wouldnt have to shift focus from his main objective. was it Wrong? sure.

 

the little that was left of the man he once was shows itself as he always looks stressed, miserable & short-fused. its not like he was having fun & savoring every moment of his less-than-glorious take over, he knows he f'd up, can't change the past & can't say "sorry about that, lets start over", handing the country back over to Anora or whoever the hell - not without killing his own self that is

 

Killing Loghain, why, who & is it right?

 

keep in mind this is based on the available choices you can make in game, not ones we would do in real life

 

when i hit a home-run on loghain's face (watching his teeth become shrapnel spraying towards the spectators causing minor injuries but no with loss of life thankfully) after the duel, i didnt do it out of "revenge" or "justice". i did it for him. notice how he says his final words (smiling in fact, for the first time in game, as if at peace, correction, finally at peace). -generalized quote: "I havent seen a strength found in you since maric -I can go in peace knowing that fereldan is in your hands." he's not bullshitting, he's tired, he's glad its finally over. he lead a legendary life and took part in events that forged history itself. he wasnt driven "mad by ambition" Teagan, you're a good guy but leave the thinking to the people who can. what quality of life can be him from here on anyway, fallen legend, shameful "tyrant", "traitor to the throne", etc. even in the best case scenario he would sit on his front porch dazing off into the clouds with memories of regret, failure & pain for the remainder of his days. you see a dying dog on the side of the road, you dont shoot it in the legs, stomach and chest before doing so and you dont do it with a cold one-liner at the very end, its the same reason "we" dont allow a victims family member perform the lethal injection, or let them pull the lever that starts the electric chair, etc

 

anyway, i put him down myself as letting alistair do it (who is quite dull-witted himself, must run in the family hahah...kidding..not really) out of vengeance would be violating the very principles that most use a reason to want him dead in the first place.. at least it would with the views from the more "righteous" crowd, (...rather Self-righteous) does that make sense?

 

reason comes from either logic or emotion (or obligation at times). many times righteous actions completely go against logic. so you either kill em cause this a**hole has been stalking & attempting to murder you every step of the way, or you kill em cause you dont want to risk Further delays/disruptions from what needs to be done

 

Letting him live.

 

Now This one is Extremely simple, perhaps thanks to the lack of detail/continuity in the games plot/script itself.

 

you dont do it for "riori" or whatever's lame ass reason- "hes a general of renoun douchery". the soldiers accept whoever is giving em the speech before the Denerim battle. could be the queen, could be ali-baba, could be that little boy in Lothering looking for his mother (mumaaa, where are you, im standing on a bridge using the same skin as the kid a few blocks away, i dont like this....mumaaa), doesnt matter. so it's great that we agree on that

 

you dont do it because he's actually got skills you can put to use, or skills that would somehow increase the effectiveness of your current squads, warriors are as common as loghains initial social rank. dont need em to win

 

you do it only for a few reasons, most of them.....dickish

 

you want to bang his daughter (who wouldn't!!... dont answer that) and marry into a relatively comfortable but arguably morbid & twisted partnership/regime, letting alistair run off to cry about his problems in a corner by himself...or to pyre his ass cause he's always singing the carebear theme song in a world of evil and flying baby parts

 

you want see alistair "join duncan ont he pyre". i sure get a laugh out of "its about time". talk about cold... couldnt have put it better

 

you want to see what loghain has to say as he is no longer the "untouchable/reachable" figure that is completely out of your reach, as well as to see how your companions interact with him

 

alrighty im hungry now so i wont "trim" the post down as i usually try to, and this is one post i feel as if i shouldnt "canel at the last moment", they seem so much shorter in ms word heh....so uh.. -drops an exploding smoke bomb and vanishes within the cloud-

love u guys (just dont contact or ask me for anything, ever)

take care

 

;]

[Azlaksar]

It's really simple. Loghain hung the death of the King on me, sent assassins to kill me, and sold my brothers and sisters into slavery. Off with his head. He would do the same with me if he had the chance, and boy did he try.

 

Problem is, he didn't do his homework before he tried to take down a one-woman army who wades through the blood of thousands of darkspawn and eviscerated every single fool that tried to stand in her way. Some brilliant tactician, huh? I wish there was an option to spit on his grave.

[ElliotKane]

I've always killed him for at least two of three reasons:

 

1. First and foremost, he is a known betrayer. He was willing to see his daughter's husband who was also the son of his best friend killed and all his men with him. For no better reason than Loghain's own grab for power. I would never trust him not to try again, especially with people he has no reason to love. And - he is very GOOD at betrayal.

 

2. Most of my characters to reach that point had personal reasons for wanting him dead. He is responsible for a lot of very bad things, either personally or through his minions. They simply would not have let him live under any circumstances.

 

3. It involves a direct swap with a character I have already built up and worked hard to get to a reasonable level, properly equip, etc. I'm being asked to swap a complete unknown for someone I have worked hard on fairly close to the end of the game. Not a good time.

 

I'll likely do it sooner or later out of pure curiosity, but I can't see any other real reason to do so, either in- or out of game. And I'll need a character who would do it, which I don't currently have...