The vanilla player character leveling system

[Megatarius]

I seem to be one of the few people that likes the way the game levels your character. Of course I hate the world leveling with you, that's a given. But I really like the way the character levels, with used skills making you progress.

 

Sure it would be good to get rid of the Major vs Minor Skills thing. You should grow and mature as a character no matter what you just raised. But even within the major skills only system, I think it makes a lot of sense.

 

I really don't like experience points and all that. I can see why people do, but I think it's refreshing to get away from all that and still have a system that works.

 

 

Why do people dislike it so much? It's one of the first complaints I read about whenever I read a bad review of the game. I know you can cheat it by intentionally choosing stuff you'll never use, and work your way up from Novice with everything you will use, then get all +5 on your majors when you do raise them. But that doesn't seem like such a bad thing, more like another option.

 

Do people just really, really like experience points? Do a lot of people who play Oblivion also play D&D and just feel more comfortable with that? I don't really care for D&D. I play it with a group of friends, but really only because it's an excuse to hang out with them since we aren't in school together anymore. (My current character started off in a prison cell. ;D )

[scrivener07]

I LOVE 4 ev the oblivion level system. Makes total sense, you choose a vague direction for your PC via major skills and the more you do something the better your get at it. kinda like real life. Im a Light armor, spell casting, alchemist, archer.

 

Also one point I want to make is sometimes I will choose a low cost spell an cast it over and over for a little boost. imo this is not cheating. I see NPCs do it. besides in real life I would assume you would be better at casting spells the more you actually cast them

[phaz]

it's not so much the player leveling i don't like, it's the fact that enemies, spells, weapons and loot level with the player. For example, if you complete the fingers of the mountain quest at level 2 the spell you get is pretty crap, but if you complete it at level 26 you get one of the most powerful spells in the game

[Ferryt]

I'm a realist -- even in gaming. I absolutely detest anything at all that smacks of "character level". The closest thing to this in real life would be something like the military ranking system, but being "higher level" in that does not necessarily make you better at anything. I would love for someone to figure out how to remove all effects of character level from Oblivion and make a character's "power" the result of only that character's skills, stats and knowledge. This is why, given the choice between a good D&D game and a mediocre GURPS game, I'll go with the GURPs game, even though I really dislike it only having four character stats.

 

There shouldn't be major and minor skills. Whether or not something is "major" or "minor" should depend upon how much you use it -- not upon some innate quality of the PC to have some sort of special "talent" with an otherwise random mix of skills. It just doesn't make sense. Games like Oblivion take much of the fun of immersion out of playing by almost forcing the player in a role of rule-mongering. Never, ever, take Alchemy as a major skill. It's too easy to level up in the game just by using it and then you get your PC "over leveled" and you know when you take on that Oblivion gate that the enemies level up with you, but your NPC allies are going to get massacred because they don't, and ...

 

You get the point I'm trying to make, I'm sure. I really think that Bethesda abused the whole concept of "leveling" in this game, especially with regard to enemies leveling up with you. Why do the bandits that had on cheap light armor early in the game wind up decked out in the finest glass armor later on when I go back to "liberate" their stuff from them a second time? And, yet, my NPC allies in the main quest don't? What sort of perverted sense does that make? Leveling in Oblivion looks to me to be nothing more than

 

1. catering to the hack&slash D&D crowd
   
2. a cheap way to keep the game challenging as the player gets better (and even that wasn't done well)

[Megatarius]

You make a very good point, but I've never really run across those problems too often. My characters are all pretty low level still, and I use FCOM, so I won't run into the glass armor bandit problem (right???).

 

I think it's playing style as well. I actually use Alchemy as a major skill quite often, mostly because I want to have two effects right away. The reason you choose seven arbitrary skills to be "better" at is because you're building your character's history. You don't have to be a novice at everything, especially if your character is older than the slider being all the way to the left. And increasing it faster makes sense because obviously people are better at certain things than others. If I was to make myself in the game, and the skills were real world things, I would choose 3D Modeling and Creative Writing as majors, and leave Dance and Mathematics as minors. I'm better at the first two things, so I would increase them faster if I did them. If I spent the same amount of time crunching numbers I do building things in 3D, I'd just have a headache. You get where I'm going.

 

As for separating it out into levels, yeah that is pretty pointless. You can have just as much skill and power with just higher stats. I guess they don't want to work very hard making each monster's stats unique when they can just make it "Level 10" or "Level 3". Or better yet for them, and worse for us, check off "Player Level Offset 0".

[Sebiale]

I don't like it because if you level as the system wants you to, your character will end up getting weaker in relation to the mobs.

That, and you have to do weird and non-sensible things in order to level up attributes in an equal manner,

 

I like how we get stronger by using our skills, I just think the system of how our attributes and skills relate is poor.

[Elsarian]

Well there are many good points that have been here, but the only true thing that I hate about the leveling system is that I level to fast!

 

I mean I could gain a level every hour if I wanted to and yeah that just disturbes me!!! I like to work for my levels and have that sense of challenge! I want to grind for three hours just to gain a level or what have you.

 

 

But that is just me and of course all of the other things that get annoying like every creature and weapon level with you and all that. And being able to cheat it. But I guess it just depends on the person and how they like their games.

 

And one thing that I really do miss is the way Morrowind was! I mean you could find Daedric at level one! Of course very carefully done though lol. But yeah I really enjoyed the way Morrwind was. But it just depends on the player and how they like their games I guess.

 

-Elsarian

[WeissYohji]

Well there are many good points that have been here, but the only true thing that I hate about the leveling system is that I level to fast!

 

I mean I could gain a level every hour if I wanted to and yeah that just disturbes me!!! I like to work for my levels and have that sense of challenge! I want to grind for three hours just to gain a level or what have you.

 

 

But that is just me and of course all of the other things that get annoying like every creature and weapon level with you and all that. And being able to cheat it. But I guess it just depends on the person and how they like their games.

 

And one thing that I really do miss is the way Morrowind was! I mean you could find Daedric at level one! Of course very carefully done though lol. But yeah I really enjoyed the way Morrwind was. But it just depends on the player and how they like their games I guess.

 

-Elsarian

 

Isn't that what overhauls are for?

 

It's already enough you can beat the main quest at level 1, and merely leveling a skill, making spells, or enchanting stuff approach game breaker territory. And that's before you start using the ever-famous 100% Chameleon suit.