Dealing with "The family"

[Umberstone]

I'm playing as a good guy but the responses when dealing with the family in the "blood ties" quest are way too sympathetic. You are given reason to believe that the West's son joined with the family and killed his parents, yet when you track him down, instead of demanding answers you beg him to leave with you. If you tell him to stay he thanks you for understanding. If you say that he is a murderer, he says that the conversation is over... and it is!? What about the people he killed? Even if you hear them out, why would you believe the family? Why doesn't anyone in town care that the kid killed his parents and is a cannibal?

 

The tunnels the family hangs out in are full of traps yet they let strangers walk around their camp. I haven't found any conversation responses that will cause them to fight me. You can't tell the family to leave the town alone or else. Is there any way other than randomly attacking them that I can solve this quest without being okay with cannibals/murders?

[WastelandAssassin]

it seems to me that you haven't actually read the conversations at all

if you talk to Vance, he will tell you that he is making sure that his people will only drink for blood packs, and not drink people's blood

so in fact, they are good people

they aren't cannibals, at least not by choice, or so the story goes

so in fact, they are just good people, with a disease that makes them commit acts that aren't considered humane

 

but if you decide to help them, you can make sure that they protect Arefu, and in return, they get blood packs, so you are doing good for both sides, and you are also preventing the family from killing people again

 

i have to say, out of all the groups in the wasteland, i would have to say that the family is one of the most humane and good nature groups you can find

[Umberstone]

it seems to me that you haven't actually read the conversations at all

if you talk to Vance, he will tell you that he is making sure that his people will only drink for blood packs, and not drink people's blood

 

Why would you believe any of that or be so quick to forgive and forget considering why you were tracking them? The towns people wanted to fight the family before anyone died, yet magically all is forgiven and the town is okay with a cannibal living next door?

 

It doesn't fit at all with the character I'm playing, and to me, makes no sense. I tracked them down to force them to stay away from the town, not to bargain. And i wanted justice for the dead Wests, but ultimately it was like they never existed. The guy even compares humans to cattle. I can't hold that guy responsible for killing his parents or view him as a threat. I have to believe that there is such a thing as "natural" cannibalism. I have to forgive (and not even mention) the family for drinking blood from the dead Wests and for tormenting that town. I also have to believe they are not dangerous because they say so, even though all I know about them for a fact is their behavior in town and that they are cannibals.

[WastelandAssassin]

basically?? YES

you see, the way you look at this doesn't really matter

if this was real life, you could have done whatever you want with them

but since it's a game, you can't

 

just find the best option for you, that the game gives and do that

 

but let me ask you another question, how can you believe that the BoS are good?? is there any faction in the wasteland, that is comprised of actually good people?? because all of them have problems, and all are bad in their ways

so i wouldn't be so quick to judge.......

[TehBuddha]

I remember there was a dialogue choice that caused them to attack you.

It was something I said to the first member you meet, the one guarding the gate. :thumbsup:

[Umberstone]

basically?? YES

you see, the way you look at this doesn't really matter

if this was real life, you could have done whatever you want with them

but since it's a game, you can't

 

Calm down. I have no idea why you are taking a tone as if I insulted you personally.

 

My problem is, when the quest starts you are supposed to be hunting down a gang that has been terrorizing a small town. Yet, when you find them, all your responses are "YOU'RE NOT BAD AT ALL" "I KNOW THIS MUST BE HARD FOR YOU" "LET ME UNDERSTAND YOU". Even the neutral (evil?) responses view them as persecuted and ignore what they did or might do. You can't play out the quest as a lawman type character and there is no resolution for the murders or the fact that they were raising hell in that town. If you don't except the cannibals and forget why you were after them, you can't finish the quest.

 

I have left the quest unfinished and moved on.

 

how can you believe that the BoS are good

 

From what I've seen of them in the game, the brotherhood of steel are in no way similar to this situation.

[WastelandAssassin]

i'm sorry that you think i was talking in a different tone, i wasn't getting angry, and i'm not taking anything personal :)

 

i know this quest, like many others, have some problems for some people, as we don't always get the choices we want to make

i just think we have to make the most out of what we have (unless you expect to mod this quest to your liking)

 

well, if you feel like you need to leave the quest as it is, that is your choice

i understand what you are saying, so i understand why you do this

 

and about the BoS, what i'm saying is that most factions, if not all of them, aren't really good people

but then again, this was clearly not one of my smarter remarks......

let's just ignore that, shall we??

 

anyhow, i hope you will get to enjoy the rest of the game

i sure know how hard it is to be the good guy, but it's kinda fun as well :)

[pleasenoname]

Here is what I posted earlier, elsewhere:

 

"It's impossible to drink blood from a dead corpse, the blood coagulates.

Therefore when Vance claims to have done that with the West's, he lied.

 

You're right, Ian is sick and may kill again. I will mod in a trial and execution for him.

 

The family shot dead all those Brahmin despite Vance's orders. None of the family take his rules seriously, just talk to them instead of going to the computer to learn the rules. They all even sit down at that long table and eat meat, if you come at the right time of day to see it. Karl even remarks how the last traveler to come through was chewy and he keeps a bone saw in his locker.

The guy they send to "gaurd" the town, even has trouble remembering the rules when asked about them (must not look at rules on the computer to get this dialogue option). They are receiving payment in blood packs to either leave the town alone or "protect it". The mafia does that; it's called a protection racket.

It's morally reprehensible to leave Arefu at the mercy of the family.

 

Furthermore Ian is left in isolation by the family, a technique used in brainwashing. Ian's inability to clearly remember the incident and Vance's seeming knowledge of Ian's problem, lead me to postulate that Vance slipped Ian drugs to confuse him and manipulate him into thinking he killed the Wests, so that he may gain a new follower."

 

I waited until Vance was in the tunnel or near his office/bedroom and then I blew his head off in VATS. I took his Shiskebab flame sword and used it to kill every one else. If you are far enough away, they won't know that you killed Vance. You must quickly rush the others, its best to do it when they are all sleeping. Hide behind the dividers in the communal sleeping area for cover and whack them as fast as possible. You must kill them before you speak to Ian or Arefu becomes hostile to you.

When I did speak to Ian, I had him stay there and told his sister that he was fine, but didn't tell her where he was. I lied to Evan King and said I couldn't find him; you still complete the quest. I'm considering modding

a trial and execution of Ian.

Edited November 28, 2010 by pleasenoname

[apaosha]

It's good that you've decided to sort this quest out in your own way. Fallout 3 morality so rarely gives the options I'd like to follow as well....

[7thsealord]

It's impossible to drink blood from a dead corpse, the blood coagulates.

Therefore when Vance claims to have done that with the West's, he lied.

 

Not total or instant coagulation, therefore not necessarily impossible - just difficult. Otherwise, there wouldn't be any point in trying to drain blood from bodies prior to preparation for either autopsy or funeral. As I understand it, this is a standard practice for both.

 

None of the family take his rules seriously, just talk to them instead of going to the computer to learn the rules. They all even sit down at that long table and eat meat, if you come at the right time of day to see it. Karl even remarks how the last traveler to come through was chewy and he keeps a bone saw in his locker.

The guy they send to "gaurd" the town, even has trouble remembering the rules when asked about them (must not look at rules on the computer to get this dialogue option).

 

The impression I have is that most of the Family are still very new to Vance's rules. Most of them seem to be more uncertain than anything else. The exception would seem to be Karl, but the others seem sincere enough as presented.

 

As for Karl's little remark, this could very easily be his idea of humour, or an attempt at low-level intimidation, or a reference to his pre-Family life, or combinations thereof. Any of these would seem very much in character for him. The fact that he has a Bonesaw someplace is hardly conclusive evidence of cannibalism - he's their trader, after all, and has all sorts of junk in lockers.

 

If said Bonesaw could be forensically matched to a pile of gnawed-upon human remains, then you might be onto something. ;)

 

They are receiving payment in blood packs to either leave the town alone or "protect it". The mafia does that; it's called a protection racket.

It's morally reprehensible to leave Arefu at the mercy of the family.

 

Just about any military, militia or security force in the Wastes (and arguably a lot of other places) could be defined as a protection racket, if you think about it. I also note that, in the dialogue choices for making peace between the Family and Arefu, there are options for them simply leaving Arefu alone.

 

Furthermore Ian is left in isolation by the family, a technique used in brainwashing. Ian's inability to clearly remember the incident and Vance's seeming knowledge of Ian's problem, lead me to postulate that Vance slipped Ian drugs to confuse him and manipulate him into thinking he killed the Wests, so that he may gain a new follower.

 

Certainly one possible interpretation. Whatever makes you happy. Just, as I see this, not necessarily the only possible interpretation.

Edited December 21, 2010 by 7thsealord